Free will isn't free after all

[Silverhair]

Pay him no mind...he just makes things up as he goes.

How do you continue to come up with these brilliant words of wisdom?

 

[Alcott]

Free will isn't free after all

No, I'm sure an honest lawyer-- supposing there is any such animal-- would tell you that.

 

[SavedByGrace]

to put it very simply, those who are "Refoormed or Calvintsic" in their theology, almost certainly don't even understand the Bible's actual teaching on FREE WILL, as given by God to ALL humans! All I ever hear are agruments based on these unbiblical theologies, and the dismissal of Bible passages that are clear, that ALL humans have FREEDOM to CHOOSE!

 

[AustinC]

to put it very simply, those who are "Refoormed or Calvintsic" in their theology, almost certainly don't even understand the Bible's actual teaching on FREE WILL, as given by God to ALL humans! All I ever hear are agruments based on these unbiblical theologies, and the dismissal of Bible passages that are clear, that ALL humans have FREEDOM to CHOOSE!

So, show us where God tells us that humans choose God to procure their salvation.

The real problem here is that no one is saying that humans do not make decisions for everyday life. What is stated is that all decisions are confined within boundaries marked out by God and further marked out, under God's allowance, by the slave master, sin, who, because of the curse, determines the parameters of your decision making.

Have you ever talked to an unsaved person about the gospel, thought the conversation was going well, only to see them hit a wall where they back out of the conversation or run back to their position? Why is it that people hit that wall?

How is it that the wall is broken down? Paul tells us. "But God..."

The issue here is simple. Who takes credit for being born again? Is it God alone? Is it man alone? Or is it man, in cooperation with God?

 

[JonC]

I suggest there is a difference between free will in terms of one's capacity to choose apart from external constraints and a freedom of the will in terms of an uninfluenced will.

It just seems that members here are arguing past one another.

On one hand our will is not "free" because it is self limiting (limited by our desires, by our will). On the other, we freely choose in accordance to our will, even if the desired outcome of that choice cannot be attained.

 

[Reformed1689]

to put it very simply, those who are "Refoormed or Calvintsic" in their theology, almost certainly don't even understand the Bible's actual teaching on FREE WILL, as given by God to ALL humans! All I ever hear are agruments based on these unbiblical theologies, and the dismissal of Bible passages that are clear, that ALL humans have FREEDOM to CHOOSE!

You mean that teaching that is man made and not actually found in the Bible but rather in Humanism? Ok. Check.

 

[Reformed1689]

On one hand our will is not "free" because it is self limiting (limited by our desires, by our will). On the other, we freely choose in accordance to our will, even if the desired outcome of that choice cannot be attained.

I don't think that accurately describes the two views.

 

[CalTech]

I am posting this in the theology forum, however if the moderators desire it moved elsewhere then they certainly attend to that.

There has been great discussions concerning the matter of "freedom of the will" as it relates to Scripture and decisions. especially that of how one becomes a believer.

There is a short (little less then 7 minutes) video clip that shows how the human mind is not actually free.

I would like for the readers to watch the video and then present some Scripture examples of how the trickery of the mind is shown as factual or not.

This thread isn't to discuss the video, but to see from the psychologically of the human how the will is not free and how then that knowledge expresses itself in Scriptures.

Take some time to watch the video before you comment. Thank you!

Video can be seen here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/reel/video/p0bygzvp/how-magic-helps-us-understand-free-will

Thank you that video reference was brilliant, what came to my mind is how persons can be manipulated to accept a False Doctrine and a False Christ. For instance Billy Graham was an excellent emotional orator, and the Crusade would start off with emotional music, especially after the "altar call" where "How Great thou Art" sung by George Beverly Shea, it was a very emotional and somber moment, manipulating the masses "emotional state" to bring about some sort of false conviction of sin or guilt. He never preached by and through the Power of the Holy Spirit! Only Holy men like the Lord and His Apostles did so!


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Lord bless you!

 

[CalTech]

The Scriptures state that:

19Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity.”
20A large house contains not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. Some indeed are for honorable use, but others are for common use. 21So if anyone cleanses himself of what is unfit, he will be a vessel for honor: sanctified, useful to the Master, and prepared for every good work."




Actually when you take the scriptures in context from 2 Tim 2: 15-21

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Paul is warning Timothy to be faithful to the Word of God, and to avoid the "vain and profane babblings,....which their word will eat as a canker, of who is Hymenaeus & Philetus" Who concerning the truth have erred, because they were overthrowing the faith of some of the disciples of Christ.
So when he stated in verse 19 "Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniqity, Paul was desiring BELIEVERS to turn away from the vain and false teaching of false teachers! By turning away from their false teachings which was leading to further iniquities against the Foundations of Christ's truth!
This has nothing to do with sinners turning from their sins. This letter was for the Good of the Believers in Christ.

Lord bless you!

So with all due respect you are not truly understanding the the verses in it's proper order within the context.
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[agedman]

... So when he stated in verse 19 "Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniqity, Paul was desiring BELIEVERS to turn away from the vain and false teaching of false teachers! By turning away from their false teachings which was leading to further iniquities against the Foundations of Christ's truth!
This has nothing to do with sinners turning from their sins. This letter was for the Good of the Believers in Christ.

I was pointing to the fact that BELIEVERS are the only ones who have true freedom of the will. They have the ability to choose that which is right and righteous, and also to turn away. Perhaps I presented with not enough clarity in that post.

I used Timothy as an example of this view.

Therefore, I don't see that there was any disagreement between us.

I do understand that some yank these or other verses from context and "proof text" a view, but I always attempt to make certain to relate to the context.

However, please continue to check my posts, for it is always good to have review and credibility checking.