Free Will Proves The Sovereignty of God

[The Biblicist]

Deception is your hallmark.

Does it make you feel good or superior to make personal attacks? Your whole posts is riddled with personal attacks.

I asked you a question or did you not see the question mark? Forget it! I shouldn't have ask the question or responded to this post.

 

[Van]

One of the tactics of Calvinists is to sidetrack discussion. Rather than discussing free will and exhaustive determinism, we are talking about arguments against the man.

Did God decree, predestine, and ordain each and every sin? Yes according to the WCF. But, presenting a logical absurdity, they then say God is not the author of sin. They say God decrees everything, primary causes, secondary causes, whatever causes, but is not the author of sin. And then they dance, dance, dance, shucking and jiving all night long.

 

[Rippon]

What would Van do without shucking and jiving? :laugh:

 

[The Biblicist]

One of the tactics of Calvinists is to sidetrack discussion. Rather than discussing free will and exhaustive determinism, we are talking about arguments against the man.

Did God decree, predestine, and ordain each and every sin? Yes according to the WCF. But, presenting a logical absurdity, they then say God is not the author of sin. They say God decrees everything, primary causes, secondary causes, whatever causes, but is not the author of sin. And then they dance, dance, dance, shucking and jiving all night long.

I have explained my view on this clearly at least three times. I illustrated with the maze example.

God has decreed the existence of sin through moral beings accountable for that sin and all of its consequences by his permissive will. This is not the will of His good pleasure but the will of permission whereby he controls and contain sin and its consequences within the boundaries of HIs will so that it works for the ultimate good of His people and for His glory. (Psa. 76:10)

All righteousness is decreed by His will of good pleasure (Isa. 46:10-11).

 

[Luke2427]

Ok, but we walk to the beat of different drummers because I don't make assertions that I don't at least attempt to demonstrate the truth of what I assert. If this forum just turned into assertions it would prove nothing and be a waste of time to read or engage in.

Yes, and this is the issue.

Webdog, RevMitchell and others cannot debate so they just pop in with these one liners, insult people, drive-by post and flee for the hills.

That is the limit of their ability.

 

[Luke2427]

Just because I don't doesn't mean I can't. I have better things to do with my time than to apply the proper hermeneutic to two dozen verses.

You've never applied the proper hermeneutic to ANY verses- much less two dozen of them.

 

[Luke2427]

Here is post #2. Where did I make a personal attack upon James? Attacking his POSITION/INTERPRETATION is not attacking his PERSON.

That's exactly right, but these guys literally cannot tell the difference.

 

[Luke2427]

Personal attack




personal attack



personal attack




personal attack




Personal attack

Further proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Attacking someone's logic is not attacking them personally.

In fact, ALL DEBATE IS, is attacking one's logic. Trying to supplant their logic. Trying to show the flaws in their logic.

To say that is a personal attack is asinine and displays that you have no business on a DEBATE forum.

 

[Iconoclast]

Like this post?

I prefer to share my own thoughts and opinions gained through study and not parrot others.

when you do it might be a first:wavey:

 

[webdog]

i

Yes, and this is the issue.

Webdog, RevMitchell and others cannot debate so they just pop in with these one liners, insult people, drive-by post and flee for the hills.

That is the limit of their ability.

Kinda like this drive by post, eh? The hypocricy continues...

 

[webdog]

You've never applied the proper hermeneutic to ANY verses- much less two dozen of them.

A hyper calvinist wouldn't know truth or a proper hermeneutic if it ran them over, backed up, and ran them over again.

 

[webdog]

when you do it might be a first:wavey:

Well, either this post is a lie...or your many accusations I am always relying on philosophy and human reasoning...which is it?

 

[Iconoclast]

Well, either this post is a lie...or your many accusations I am always relying on philosophy and human reasoning...which is it?

Well....I just looked at your last 30 posts...many insults,no scripture,no study, no edification.....look for yourself.....you tell me...do you want me to post them for you?

better still pick out your three best posts....lets see them

 

[DrJamesAch]

Biblicist

No sir, that is patently false. That is not how God has revealed himself in Scripture.

God has revealed himself in Scripture as one who has unbridled, unmitigated control of everything.

God DID reveal himself as a potter and we as nothing but clay that he molds howsoever he chooses.

Notice you just SAID God does not reveal himself that way. You just SAID it. No support for that claim. You just said it. And, brother, let me tell you why. I was a Free Will Baptist for years and I know why you just said it and offered no Scripture and no support for it.

It is because you have never even CONSIDERED that it could be otherwise.

You just thought that the idea of God being in control of everything at all times must not be so, and that is where you started.

But the Bible teaches that that thing which you right now find UNTHINKABLE is absolutely true.

Exod 4:11 Then the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?

Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

2 Chr 20:6 and said, “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand You.

Ps 103:19 The Lord has established His throne in the heavens, and His kingdom rules over all.

Ps 115:3 Our God is in the heavens; He does all that He pleases.

Ps 135:6 Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps.

Isa 45:5-7 I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides Me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides Me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all My purpose,’

Dan 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and He does according to His will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay His hand or say to Him, “What have you done?”

Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.

Acts 4:27-28 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.

Acts 17:26 And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place

Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

Exod 10:1-2 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them, and that you may tell in the hearing of your son and of your grandson how I have dealt harshly with the Egyptians and what signs I have done among them, that you may know that I am the Lord.”

Exod 12:36 And the Lord had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked. Thus they plundered the Egyptians.

Exod 14:17 And I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they shall go in after them, and I will get glory over Pharaoh and all his host, his chariots, and his horsemen.

Deut 2:30 But Sihon the king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him, for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that He might give him into your hand, as He is this day.

Deut 29:4 But to this day the Lord has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear.

Josh 24:19 But Joshua said to the people, “You are not able to serve the Lord, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. (Note – this is 5 verses after “Choose this day whom you will serve…”)

2 Chr 25:20 But Amaziah would not listen, for it was of God, in order that He might give them into the hand of their enemies, because they had sought the gods of Edom.

Ps 105:25 He turned their hearts to hate His people, to deal craftily with His servants.

Isa 44:28 Who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd, and he shall fulfill all My purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’”

Isa 63:17 O Lord, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage.

Prov 21:1 The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He will.

Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed. (Note – this is the 3rd most frequently quoted passage in the NT)

Ezek 36:26-27 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes and be careful to obey My rules.

Mark 4:11-12 And He said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that “they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.”

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65 And He said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

John 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.

John 10:26 But you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.

John 12:39-40 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,

Rom 8:7-8 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills.

Rom 11:8 As it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”

Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

Just because I have not responded to these verses YET doesn't mean I won't get to them. These verses were not explained how they support his argument, and were merely cut and pasted from this website The dead give away was were some of the "notes" at the end of the verses that he apparently didn't see. Many of these verses were copied from separate categories on the website so they are mixing several different perspectives on on thread. But I am still going to take the time to address all of them because it's part of a project I'm working on "Answering Calvinism Verse By Verse", and I will do so despite that he nor anyone else has answered mine.

 

[webdog]

Well....I just looked at your last 30 posts...many insults,no scripture,no study, no edification.....look for yourself.....you tell me...do you want me to post them for you?

better still pick out your three best posts....lets see them

Just posted scripture today...selective reading.

 

[DrJamesAch]

There is no purpose in going verse by verse with you. You take individual verses out of context as a basis, then match your concept of a half powerful God.

Did God need man's help to create the universe? Did God need man to achieve the status of omniscient? Does God need man to help Him carry out his purposes? Does God need man to carry out His plan of salvation?

Have you actually read the Gospels?

Nah, never read the Gospels. Memorized the New Testament but never actually read it, what was I thinking?

And you have a lot of nerve asking if anyone has ever read the Gospels. I can fit all your posts in one thread where you have yet to even cite ANY Bible verse let alone question whether someone else has read the Gospels! Oh wait, you have ONE post where you quoted from a creed with a Bible verse on it.

Almost all of your posts have been drive by posts at me, and the only Calvinist you've said anything to is Rippon. Out of 31 posts, half of them following me around, and several at Rippon, I'd say that account of yours is a "throw away" account just in case your REAL account got banned, and I'd say from this pattern of comments, and the only Calvinist that has had it out with Rippon makes it pretty obvious who you really are. There's only one person on here who identifies with the doctrines of Calvinism, but outright denies he is a Calvinist, argues with Rippon, and still accuses me of plagiarism, all seen in the posts below. So are you really from Rippon Virgina, or from a planet called SATURNEPTUNE.

Below are your most brilliant contributions so far. I can't believe with all of the immense exegesis and commentary you have brought to all of these discussions on this board, how I could have possibly missed any of these.

__________________

*So are you saying that Stalin was a righteous leader?

*How does Calvinism explain Scripture from Scripture? For example, Calvin believed in sprinkling and baptizing infants. How does that explain Scripture from Scripture? Why do you insist there be a middle man between God and the believer that reads the Bible? Are you from the Catholic faith sometime in the past?

*That is certainly beyond the liberty of different versions of the Bible. It sounds like a fairy tale with Mother Nature and Father Time.

*Drivel http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1995595#post1995595

*Hi,
That is a very good question. When reference is made to the kingdom of heaven, the rule of God in the earth is contemplated. This is in marked contrast to the kingdom of God, which includes His rule throughout the universe and over all beings who are in subjection to Him.

I have also read articles that they are exactly the same.

The third position I have seen is that the Kingdom of God is all saved people throughout the ages, and the Kingdom of Heaven includes us and all other beings such as angels, or whatever else exists that we do not know about.

*Hello Zaac

From what little I have read, that seems to be true. Baptists are suppose to be strong believers in a direct connection between God and the Christian through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that many are depending on a middle man named Calvin. It reminds me of the Catholic who depends on a priest to confess their sins to.

*Not really, just observing for a while. What is the purpose of a constant stream of meaningless and cruel posts that have nothing to do with Scripture?

*Having read some of your past posts, you sir, have no room to dictate to anyone about civility.

*That may or may not be true. The school label proves nothing. After doing much observing of the threads, it is my conclusion that you are 90% responsible for the name calling and division that goes on. Most posters get their points across without the personal attacks.

*I believe giving tithes and offerings are strictly between the giver and the Lord. Others should keep their nose out of it. Each person gives as lead by the Lord with a cheerful heart. I do not care what any other created being thinks of my giving.

*Maybe the joke is on you. How is believing that God is sovereign DELUSIONAL?? How much time have you put into studying this doctrine?

*So how do you explain me not being a Calvinist, and the fact after reading many posts, you to be the central problem in all of the angry posts that go back and forth

*Fred, name calling is name calling, and that is exactly what that post was. And yes, a plagiarism charge was proven against the other. It seems both of you are authors of confusion and dissention.

*Nothing to lose your head over.

*Still waiting for your answer to Post 90