Ken, the emails are coming in response to what the Calvinists are posting, not what I am saying. They are quoting you folks, not me! So whether or not I am misrepresenting anything has nothing to do with the effect the Calvinist presentations on Baptist Board are having on some folks out there. I'm afraid you can't pass that one off on me!
And yes, some little ones do indeed believe in Christ Jesus. They are taught early in life. There is no context indication, however, that Jesus was talking about anything other than the little one, the little child, He called to Him when He started speaking.
Rev. G, we are to give ANSWERS for the hope that we have. That indicates that we are to live lives that cause others to ask questions...
Please do not misrepresent that verse.
Secondly, I see nothing in Romans 5 that indicates those who do not yet know Christ do not have the ability to hope. Not only does the Bible not say that, real life does not say that either! What those verses you referred to DO say is that we rejoice in the hope we have in Christ. THIS hope others do not (and one always hopes one can say 'yet') have, but they are not devoid of the ability to hope altogether and, in fact, hope for a good many things. Why do you take these verses out of context when you know I am going to look them up?
Missions and evangelism can TELL people about the Lord and point the way, but I'm afraid it is the Father and only Him who brings people to Christ -- I think you know the verses in John 6...
I know from what I have seen that some have already been prepared, probably by others who wonder if what they said ever bore fruit, and respond as soon as they hear Barry. Others talk and talk to us and need more time. Others walk away, hopefully thinking. Only the Holy Spirit knows the right timing. We can only do what we have been shown we should do.
Again, as I wrote earlier this evening, John 17:3 refers to knowing in terms of a close relationship. We cannot cause that relationship between any individual and Christ. We can only tell the ABOUT it, and that is a VERY different matter.
Ephesians 1:18 is talking to those who are already believers.
If the term 'anonymous Christians' deals with the present age, then I would dispute it, actually, for the Gospel and name of Christ have indeed gone out into all the world now. I was thinking about people before now. If you were talking about 'now' being, say, one hundred years after the Ascension, before the message had gone out to China or Siberia or Alaska or America, then I would say that although I dislike the term 'anonymous Christians' rather much, that if that is what someone is insisting on calling them, they probably did exist.
Keep in mind, however, that it is a Catholic making that argument, and they claim that all of us believers are default Catholics, which is another thing I will dispute to the wire! So what he was presenting and what I am thinking of might be quite different. I do know that Revelation tells us that people from every nation and tribe and tongue are included among the saved. That means they have been believers. And that means there was something there for them to believe in. I think that part is fairly simple. It was when I got involved in studies that I didn't know would take me there (I have always enjoyed anthropology and ancient legends simply for their own sakes), that I found startling evidence of the knowledge of the true God in every culture, and that is what I found so exciting.
For me, those studies have done the same thing the study of science has done -- affirmed the absolute truth of the Bible start to finish. One doesn't need that to trust Christ, but it sure is fun and rewarding to find out. A friend of mine, Malcolm Bowden, in England, wrote this great book summarizing much of his research in science entitled "True Science Agrees with the Bible." Amen.
I'm not afraid of studies outside the Bible at all, because I know God has left His mark everywhere and I find excitement discovering those marks. If that seems strange to you, then I guess I have seemed strange to you all along, so that's OK...
npetreley, thank you for your confirmation. I don't have much from Fiji at all. I do have the some South Pacific material collected by A.W. Reed, and was loaned his full set of material on Australian Aboriginal dreamtime material, which is fascinating. Was what you read from him or do you remember where you read it? I would love to see it.
On to the kids. It's hard being a single parent. I was there for nine years after my high school sweetheart/husband left after 20 years of marriage, one biologic child and five special case adoptions (Bianca and Chris are the last ones left at home. Chris will always be here). It doesn't matter if you have two or six, single parenting is the pits. It is the hardest thing I have ever done, bar NOTHING else. I don't even remember my forties, actually, except bits and pieces. I would hit the ground running around five or five-thirty in the morning and be unconscious before I was fully horizontal at bedtime.
God's grace? Nothing else would have been even remotely enough. But there were funny incidents, too, that let me know He was right there. I asked Him to be a father for the children because I was no way going husband-hunting! When Bianca, at eight or nine, kept disobeying about stopping at one dangerous corner on her bike before continuing, God arranged for a very large water delivery truck to be stopped at that corner and she rode smack into it. The driver almost had a heart attack, and I was more worried about her than about Bianca, who came out without a scratch but with a totalled bike! Who else but God would have enforced my parenting that way? Who else COULD have???
Hard times, though. Really hard. God bless you.
Chris can be hard, but he can be easy, too. No car pools or schedules except he goes to 'school' at a special county facility everyday that school is in session, including summer school. He gets door to door service and the van picks him up at 7 and drops him off again at about 3:30 or 4. Then Chris comes in and goes straight to his room because school is often overload for him. There he sits and rocks with his Barney stuffed animal for awhile and then goes out to the swings and swings for a long time. He loves to listen to music, so I often have CD's on. He loves the praise choruses, and also Karen Carpenter! Lately he's been big on Strauss waltzes, too...
So in some ways he's very easy. Changing the diapers is not fun, but I've sort of grown up with him, so to speak. We started out when he was 20 months old and a new adopted little one and things just sort of went from there. He was not so retarded when we got him.
So it's do-able. Sometimes I do get restless and wish my time were more my own. I can't be with Barry in Australia right now (we were married two years ago), for instance, because of Chris. But Barry will be home in 1 week and 5 1/2 days (so who's counting???) and then it will be fine. We sure don't take each other for granted!
I think you will understand when I say that one of the things that kind of irritates me is when people blithely misquote the Bible and say that God won't give us anything we can't handle. I tell them baloney -- He does that to me everyday, and that's how I learned to lean on Him so entirely! It's temptations He won't give us that He will not also give us a way out of...
God bless you. I know it's hard. And the hard you have is just as hard as the hard I had, but in a different way. Don't belittle what you are going through. I am just very glad your kids have you. Daddies are big! Very important people, you are! And with the Lord you can do it. With Him anything is do-able -- but aren't you glad we didn't have to know all these paths He would lead us on when we first started out?
I'm glad we only get DAILY bread!
If your kids need help in science at any time, I'm available. I work with several kids via emails who ask questions.
bhs4light@baptistmail.com
In Christ,
Helen
[ November 23, 2002, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Helen ]
And yes, some little ones do indeed believe in Christ Jesus. They are taught early in life. There is no context indication, however, that Jesus was talking about anything other than the little one, the little child, He called to Him when He started speaking.
Rev. G, we are to give ANSWERS for the hope that we have. That indicates that we are to live lives that cause others to ask questions...
Secondly, I see nothing in Romans 5 that indicates those who do not yet know Christ do not have the ability to hope. Not only does the Bible not say that, real life does not say that either! What those verses you referred to DO say is that we rejoice in the hope we have in Christ. THIS hope others do not (and one always hopes one can say 'yet') have, but they are not devoid of the ability to hope altogether and, in fact, hope for a good many things. Why do you take these verses out of context when you know I am going to look them up?
Missions and evangelism can TELL people about the Lord and point the way, but I'm afraid it is the Father and only Him who brings people to Christ -- I think you know the verses in John 6...
I know from what I have seen that some have already been prepared, probably by others who wonder if what they said ever bore fruit, and respond as soon as they hear Barry. Others talk and talk to us and need more time. Others walk away, hopefully thinking. Only the Holy Spirit knows the right timing. We can only do what we have been shown we should do.
Again, as I wrote earlier this evening, John 17:3 refers to knowing in terms of a close relationship. We cannot cause that relationship between any individual and Christ. We can only tell the ABOUT it, and that is a VERY different matter.
Ephesians 1:18 is talking to those who are already believers.
If the term 'anonymous Christians' deals with the present age, then I would dispute it, actually, for the Gospel and name of Christ have indeed gone out into all the world now. I was thinking about people before now. If you were talking about 'now' being, say, one hundred years after the Ascension, before the message had gone out to China or Siberia or Alaska or America, then I would say that although I dislike the term 'anonymous Christians' rather much, that if that is what someone is insisting on calling them, they probably did exist.
Keep in mind, however, that it is a Catholic making that argument, and they claim that all of us believers are default Catholics, which is another thing I will dispute to the wire! So what he was presenting and what I am thinking of might be quite different. I do know that Revelation tells us that people from every nation and tribe and tongue are included among the saved. That means they have been believers. And that means there was something there for them to believe in. I think that part is fairly simple. It was when I got involved in studies that I didn't know would take me there (I have always enjoyed anthropology and ancient legends simply for their own sakes), that I found startling evidence of the knowledge of the true God in every culture, and that is what I found so exciting.
For me, those studies have done the same thing the study of science has done -- affirmed the absolute truth of the Bible start to finish. One doesn't need that to trust Christ, but it sure is fun and rewarding to find out. A friend of mine, Malcolm Bowden, in England, wrote this great book summarizing much of his research in science entitled "True Science Agrees with the Bible." Amen.
I'm not afraid of studies outside the Bible at all, because I know God has left His mark everywhere and I find excitement discovering those marks. If that seems strange to you, then I guess I have seemed strange to you all along, so that's OK...
npetreley, thank you for your confirmation. I don't have much from Fiji at all. I do have the some South Pacific material collected by A.W. Reed, and was loaned his full set of material on Australian Aboriginal dreamtime material, which is fascinating. Was what you read from him or do you remember where you read it? I would love to see it.
On to the kids. It's hard being a single parent. I was there for nine years after my high school sweetheart/husband left after 20 years of marriage, one biologic child and five special case adoptions (Bianca and Chris are the last ones left at home. Chris will always be here). It doesn't matter if you have two or six, single parenting is the pits. It is the hardest thing I have ever done, bar NOTHING else. I don't even remember my forties, actually, except bits and pieces. I would hit the ground running around five or five-thirty in the morning and be unconscious before I was fully horizontal at bedtime.
God's grace? Nothing else would have been even remotely enough. But there were funny incidents, too, that let me know He was right there. I asked Him to be a father for the children because I was no way going husband-hunting! When Bianca, at eight or nine, kept disobeying about stopping at one dangerous corner on her bike before continuing, God arranged for a very large water delivery truck to be stopped at that corner and she rode smack into it. The driver almost had a heart attack, and I was more worried about her than about Bianca, who came out without a scratch but with a totalled bike! Who else but God would have enforced my parenting that way? Who else COULD have???
Hard times, though. Really hard. God bless you.
Chris can be hard, but he can be easy, too. No car pools or schedules except he goes to 'school' at a special county facility everyday that school is in session, including summer school. He gets door to door service and the van picks him up at 7 and drops him off again at about 3:30 or 4. Then Chris comes in and goes straight to his room because school is often overload for him. There he sits and rocks with his Barney stuffed animal for awhile and then goes out to the swings and swings for a long time. He loves to listen to music, so I often have CD's on. He loves the praise choruses, and also Karen Carpenter! Lately he's been big on Strauss waltzes, too...
So in some ways he's very easy. Changing the diapers is not fun, but I've sort of grown up with him, so to speak. We started out when he was 20 months old and a new adopted little one and things just sort of went from there. He was not so retarded when we got him.
So it's do-able. Sometimes I do get restless and wish my time were more my own. I can't be with Barry in Australia right now (we were married two years ago), for instance, because of Chris. But Barry will be home in 1 week and 5 1/2 days (so who's counting???) and then it will be fine. We sure don't take each other for granted!
I think you will understand when I say that one of the things that kind of irritates me is when people blithely misquote the Bible and say that God won't give us anything we can't handle. I tell them baloney -- He does that to me everyday, and that's how I learned to lean on Him so entirely! It's temptations He won't give us that He will not also give us a way out of...
God bless you. I know it's hard. And the hard you have is just as hard as the hard I had, but in a different way. Don't belittle what you are going through. I am just very glad your kids have you. Daddies are big! Very important people, you are! And with the Lord you can do it. With Him anything is do-able -- but aren't you glad we didn't have to know all these paths He would lead us on when we first started out?
I'm glad we only get DAILY bread!
If your kids need help in science at any time, I'm available. I work with several kids via emails who ask questions.
bhs4light@baptistmail.com
In Christ,
Helen
[ November 23, 2002, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Helen ]
