Free Will vs. Free Agency

[psalms109:31]

Oh no brother, I don't think you are stuttering :tear:

I want to listen, I want to understand! But I think the problem is the parsing of words.

God has given mankind freewill. Yes, this freewill must operate within the boundaries which God has set in place. I can will all I want to jump up into the air and stay there suspended until I will to return to earth, but that ain't going to happen.

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" (Duet30:19)

" O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!" (Luke13:34)

Happy Easter to you as well! :wavey:

When Jesus was brought the choice He didn't express the will like you do. He simply said not my will the will of his flesh to live denied His will, but your will be done.

I trust Jesus it is not a choice of the will but to turn your back on your will and turn to Him.

He laid down His life and now He is risen. Denial of our will by our free agency

 

[steaver]

When Jesus was brought the choice He didn't express the will like you do. He simply said not my will the will of his flesh to live denied His will, but your will be done.

I trust Jesus it is not a choice of the will but to turn your back on your will and turn to Him.

He laid down His life and now He is risen. Denial of our will by our free agency

Jesus, having taken on the flesh of man, could experience the human will to live. Although He felt this will to live and not die, He denied this fleshly will and submitted to the cross He was ordained to die on for the sins of the world.

In like manner, we are to deny ourselves, the fleshly desires, and submit ourselves to the will of the Father.

Is it really necessary to confuse the issue with "agency" verses "will"?

 

[psalms109:31]

Jesus, having taken on the flesh of man, could experience the human will to live. Although He felt this will to live and not die, He denied this fleshly will and submitted to the cross He was ordained to die on for the sins of the world.

In like manner, we are to deny ourselves, the fleshly desires, and submit ourselves to the will of the Father.

Is it really necessary to confuse the issue with "agency" verses "will"?

It was very hard to let go of the will of who I am really, there is a war against my members wanting to do good the will of the Father and my will to do evil.

That it is a battle every day and the only way to fight it is by the will of the Father found in His word.

We will never see a change in us until we are willing to give up our will to do evil to follow Jesus.

You may never see it the way I do, but it will always be not my will, but your will be done the Fathers will and I don't want my will to have any freedom, but to turn away from it everyday to follow Jesus will the will of the Father.

Many have given up their will and now follow Jesus, but can't really explain what they have done, but they are saved

May God bless you in the study of the word.

 

[JonC]

Does it strike anyone else as odd that the only place where “free will” is accepted is in the department of religion? Science has made strides to attribute our will to genetics, psychology to experiential learning and society in general to culture. I personally find it odd that the notion of "free will" exists today only in the mind of certain religious dogmas.

 

[InTheLight]

Does it strike anyone else as odd that the only place where “free will” is accepted is in the department of religion? Science has made strides to attribute our will to genetics, psychology to experiential learning and society in general to culture. I personally find it odd that the notion of "free will" exists today only in the mind of certain religious dogmas.

Yeah, just as odd as resurrection existing only in the realm of religions. Or sin. Or Heaven and Hell. Or inspired scriptures.

In other words, no, I don't find it odd.

 

[JonC]

Yeah, just as odd as resurrection existing only in the realm of religions. Or sin. Or Heaven and Hell. Or inspired scriptures.

In other words, no, I don't find it odd.

So you find Scripture as affirming a freedom of the will as a "mystery" revealed through Scripture. I can deal with that. At least you've stated a position.

 

[InTheLight]

So you find Scripture as affirming a freedom of the will as a "mystery" revealed through Scripture. I can deal with that. At least you've stated a position.

I didn't say anything like that. I merely commented that I do not find it strange that freedom of the will is discussed as a religious topic.

 

[JonC]

I didn't say anything like that. I merely commented that I do not find it strange that freedom of the will is discussed as a religious topic.

Religious but denied in the sciences?

My point is that free-will is largely a religious term with very little if any biblical support as to the outcome of that will being based on human will itself.

 

[Winman]

Does it strike anyone else as odd that the only place where “free will” is accepted is in the department of religion? Science has made strides to attribute our will to genetics, psychology to experiential learning and society in general to culture. I personally find it odd that the notion of "free will" exists today only in the mind of certain religious dogmas.

Free will is scriptural. God himself speaks of free will in the Bible.

Lev 1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.

God said that "any man" of the Jews could bring a sacrifice to him, and they were to offer it of their OWN VOLUNTARY WILL. Now that is free will!

And not only could any man among the Jews offer a sacrifice to God of his own free will, God said he would accept it to make atonement for that man.

This scripture destroys the false doctrine of Total Inability.

 

[Revmitchell]

Religious but denied in the sciences?

My point is that free-will is largely a religious term with very little if any biblical support as to the outcome of that will being based on human will itself.

God is denied in the sciences.

 

[Yeshua1]

Free will is scriptural. God himself speaks of free will in the Bible.

Lev 1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.

God said that "any man" of the Jews could bring a sacrifice to him, and they were to offer it of their OWN VOLUNTARY WILL. Now that is free will!

And not only could any man among the Jews offer a sacrifice to God of his own free will, God said he would accept it to make atonement for that man.

This scripture destroys the false doctrine of Total Inability.

Adam was granted real free will, but after the Fall, ALL of us are enslaved to fallen natures, that we still have free will to chose, but not free to chose all options as Adam could!

Our sin natures place a limit on what can now freely choose to do!

 

[psalms109:31]

Adam was granted real free will, but after the Fall, ALL of us are enslaved to fallen natures, that we still have free will to chose, but not free to chose all options as Adam could!

Our sin natures place a limit on what can now freely choose to do!

I don't know where you get your ideas from.

Free will and us trying to obey the law is to show how wicked the will is to teach us to turn away from the will and turn to God to change what we cannot.

The will has to be beat into submission and made a slave. It is wicked we should not deny scripture but use it to see what God is teaching us through it.

God does not want any to die but rather to repent and live.

Our teaching should teach people to turn away from their will and say as Jesus not my will but your will be done.

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Exodus 35:29
King James Version (KJV)
29 The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the Lord, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the Lord had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.

 

[Winman]

Adam was granted real free will, but after the Fall, ALL of us are enslaved to fallen natures, that we still have free will to chose, but not free to chose all options as Adam could!

Our sin natures place a limit on what can now freely choose to do!

Pure error without a word of scripture to support it.

Why don't you ever post scripture to support your view? Because you can't.

 

[Winman]

I don't know where you get your ideas from.

He's just a cheerleader for the Reformed view. He never has a word of scripture to support the falsehood he constantly spews out. Anybody who listens to him is a fool.

 

[OldRegular]

Only if you are a Gnostic.

I believe Scripture we are either servants of God or servants of sin! So where is the free will?

 

[psalms109:31]

He's just a cheerleader for the Reformed view. He never has a word of scripture to support the falsehood he constantly spews out. Anybody who listens to him is a fool.

Winman I was just asking him where he got this idea.

I really do not want to turn this into a Spurgeon bashing that someone was trying to turn it into, or persons religious preference or person.

I just want to discuss the subject at hand.

Someone ask if a Calvinist believes men has a choice or not, this is why i brought this discussion up.

A Calvinist believes men are responsible free agencies. That we are either following our will or His will.

Lets discuss this free will and free agency without bashing others.

We are all looking for answers, I don't want this closed if it turns into bashing I will ask this to be closed.

 

[Yeshua1]

Pure error without a word of scripture to support it.

Why don't you ever post scripture to support your view? Because you can't.

Do you deny the Bible when it states to us that we are ALL at war/eminity against God, that in our sinful natures/flesh, that we cannot even come to know God apart from the work of the Holy Spirit to bring us to belief in jesus, and THEN become at peace with God?

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe Scripture we are either servants of God or servants of sin! So where is the free will?

Jesus said that we are either children of God, His father, or else Satan....

he also said that apart from Him, that we are ALL slaves to sin...

was he right or wrong in this?

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus said that we are either children of God, His father, or else Satan....

he also said that apart from Him, that we are ALL slaves to sin...

was he right or wrong in this?

If Jesus Christ said it then it is obviously true.

 

[Winman]

Do you deny the Bible when it states to us that we are ALL at war/eminity against God, that in our sinful natures/flesh, that we cannot even come to know God apart from the work of the Holy Spirit to bring us to belief in jesus, and THEN become at peace with God?

What does this have to do with your false statements made earlier?

Before you said;

Adam was granted real free will, but after the Fall, ALL of us are enslaved to fallen natures, that we still have free will to chose, but not free to chose all options as Adam could!

Our sin natures place a limit on what can now freely choose to do!

Back up these statements with scripture. Where do the scriptures say we are not free to choose all options as Adam could?

Where do the scriptures say our sin natures place a limit on what we can now freely choose to do?

Show me any scripture that supports these statements by you, or admit you are just parroting Reformed/Calvinist doctrine that has no scriptural support.