Free Will vs. Free Agency

[Revmitchell]

You know, people are welcome to change the meaning of will, place it in whatever context they want. But, in the end we are given the ability to choose God or reject Him. Now you can dress that up in whatever theological double speak you want. But when we get down to the simple matter of the thing we make a choice.


He who has the power and ability to provide salvation gets the full credit regardless of the choice we make or how we made it.

 

[Revmitchell]

"I am not sure that in heaven that we shall be able to know where the free agency of man and the sovereignty of God meet, but both are great truths."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

[steaver]

"I am not sure that in heaven that we shall be able to know where the free agency of man and the sovereignty of God meet, but both are great truths."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

I like and agree with Ravi Zacharias, he says the same thing, but he says freewill, not free agency.

 

[psalms109:31]

The will is to be fought against not to give freedom to it. You have the devil telling you to do one thing that is your will and the other the angel telling you to do good that is The word of God when you don't have that you have the law stopping your will because of the consequences. When God places life and death before you the one making the choice betwee the two is your free agency.

A free agency can stay on the losing team and have fun and do what ever the will wants and die in your sin or you can go on the winning team it is going to be easy believes but you will have to fight against this will you think is free and turn to Jesus and learn from Him and you will find rest for your soul.

 

[psalms109:31]

The short answer if men can't see how wicked their will is they will not see it the way I do.

 

[steaver]

The will is to be fought against not to give freedom to it. You have the devil telling you to do one thing that is your will and the other the angel telling you to do good that is The word of God when you don't have that you have the law stopping your will because of the consequences. When God places life and death before you the one making the choice betwee the two is your free agency.

A free agency can stay on the losing team and have fun and do what ever the will wants and die in your sin or you can go on the winning team it is going to be easy believes but you will have to fight against this will you think is free and turn to Jesus and learn from Him and you will find rest for your soul.

What of those who have been born-again, what happens when they do whatever their will wants rather than everything the Father's will wants? Are they dead (hell bound) in whatever sin they happen to be in at the moment? Or are they excused, always forgiven, no matter what their free agency happens to be choosing at any given moment?

 

[psalms109:31]

What of those who have been born-again, what happens when they do whatever their will wants rather than everything the Father's will wants? Are they dead (hell bound) in whatever sin they happen to be in at the moment? Or are they excused, always forgiven, no matter what their free agency happens to be choosing at any given moment?

Our will is linked to the flesh that is why we will always have a struggle until we get the spiritual body a will linked to that. Our will is like the primal part of us the animal within us that needs tamed not freedom.

 

[Yeshua1]

"I am not sure that in heaven that we shall be able to know where the free agency of man and the sovereignty of God meet, but both are great truths."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Spoken by one of the greatest Baptist Calvinist who has ever lived!

 

[steaver]

Our will is linked to the flesh that is why we will always have a struggle until we get the spiritual body a will linked to that. Our will is like the primal part of us the animal within us that needs tamed not freedom.

Ok, but what about my question?

What of those who have been born-again, what happens when they do whatever their will wants rather than everything the Father's will wants? Are they dead (hell bound) in whatever sin they happen to be in at the moment? Or are they excused, always forgiven, no matter what their free agency happens to be choosing at any given moment?

 

[steaver]

Spoken by one of the greatest Baptist Calvinist who has ever lived!

Easy there Yeshua, remember now, you are a Calvinist. Calvinist believe everything is ordained of God without any human decisions at all. If Spurgeon was great, it was only because God made him be great, he did nothing of his own free will.

 

[Iconoclast]

You know, people are welcome to change the meaning of will, place it in whatever context they want. But, in the end we are given the ability to choose God or reject Him. Now you can dress that up in whatever theological double speak you want. But when we get down to the simple matter of the thing we make a choice.


He who has the power and ability to provide salvation gets the full credit regardless of the choice we make or how we made it.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be


you say otherwise

 

[psalms109:31]

Ok, but what about my question?

I did answer your question. I try my best to tell you we are born again by the enduring word of God but we still have this flesh and it's will to contend with until we are given a Spiritual body and it's will.

This flesh and this will our will is worldly.

We are given a new heart and a new will His will by the word of God, but we are still at war with this flesh and it's will.

Like I keep saying as long as you don't know how wicked our will is you will not see the will as I do. God will is a new seed that has been planted in us through His word, but you are still fighting against your will.

I gave you Scripture of Paul struggle and showed you Jesus Himself said not my will but yours and do you see your own struggle with your will on this.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

 

[steaver]

I did answer your question. I try my best to tell you we are born again by the enduring word of God but we still have this flesh and it's will to contend with until we are given a Spiritual body and it's will.

This flesh and this will our will is worldly.

We are given a new heart and a new will His will by the word of God, but we are still at war with this flesh and it's will.

Like I keep saying as long as you don't know how wicked our will is you will not see the will as I do. God will is a new seed that has been planted in us through His word, but you are still fighting against your will.

I gave you Scripture of Paul struggle and showed you Jesus Himself said not my will but yours and do you see your own struggle with your will on this.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

What prompted my question was this post of yours....

Psalm109:31 - "A free agency can stay on the losing team and have fun and do what ever the will wants and die in your sin or you can go on the winning team it is going to be easy believes but you will have to fight against this will you think is free and turn to Jesus and learn from Him and you will find rest for your soul".

So I still see my question as unanswered for you have not addressed the subject matter of life and death you raised in your original post...

Steaver - What of those who have been born-again, what happens when they do whatever their will wants rather than everything the Father's will wants? Are they dead (hell bound) in whatever sin they happen to be in at the moment? Or are they excused, always forgiven, no matter what their free agency happens to be choosing at any given moment?

 

[psalms109:31]

What prompted my question was this post of yours....




So I still see my question as unanswered for you have not addressed the subject matter of life and death you raised in your original post...

I am dealing with the subject at hand you are taking in another direction that is talking about something else.

A person who is born again by the word of God is being changed becoming a new creation and Jesus finishes what He started this is going in a different subject matter than the free will vs. Free agency but to the osas

It is foolish to say a person who is born again would completely turn his back on God , but it doesn't mean he doesn't struggle until he gets the new spiritual body and it's will.

Let's stay on subject please like I am

 

[Yeshua1]

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be


you say otherwise

Martin Luther gave a great discussion of this in his the Bondage of the Will, and his main point rings so true, that while slaves to sin, we are not free to chose all things, only those that sin nature allows for!

 

[Yeshua1]

Easy there Yeshua, remember now, you are a Calvinist. Calvinist believe everything is ordained of God without any human decisions at all. If Spurgeon was great, it was only because God made him be great, he did nothing of his own free will.

Just saying that even he as a strong Calvinist, saw there we are still accountable moral agents, not just robots programmed by God to get saved!

 

[steaver]

I am dealing with the subject at hand you are taking in another direction that is talking about something else.


Let's stay on subject please like I am

Lol, Oh my Lordy! You introduced the subject.

Psalm109:31 - "A free agency can stay on the losing team and have fun and do what ever the will wants and die in your sin or you can go on the winning team it is going to be easy believes but you will have to fight against this will you think is free and turn to Jesus and learn from Him and you will find rest for your soul".

Do my questions make you uncomfortable?

Steaver - What of those who have been born-again, what happens when they do whatever their will wants rather than everything the Father's will wants? Are they dead (hell bound) in whatever sin they happen to be in at the moment? Or are they excused, always forgiven, no matter what their free agency happens to be choosing at any given moment?

Blessings! :wavey:

 

[steaver]

Just saying that even he as a strong Calvinist, saw there we are still accountable moral agents, not just robots programmed by God to get saved!

Some Calvinist believe that everything that comes to past it has been ordained of God.

 

[psalms109:31]

Lol, Oh my Lordy! You introduced the subject.




Do my questions make you uncomfortable?



Blessings! :wavey:

I think you don't like the answer so you are saying I am not answering your question.

I like the you are not answering a question I have and turning it around on me that I don't like your question.

That those who can't admit the struggle with sin and keep it the darkness have a problem.

We believers have no problem admitting we struggle with the will of our flesh and wants God to help us.

What was you fighting with before God helped you wasn't the will of your flesh to sin?

What do you use to fight it wasn't it the word of God where you found the will of God for you?

You didn't turn your back on your will to follow His will?

Am I to change what happen to me to match yours so you will agree with it?

Those who love the darkness practice sin and think they are hiding who they really are by staying in the darkness.

We who recognize who we are and there is a war against our will have come into the light and say we are sinners and want help to defeat the will of our flesh and turn to Jesus to save us and though Him now practice righteousness for the day we are given a Spiritual body with it's will in heavenly not this earthly body and will that is worldly.

To practice does not mean we are perfect we still struggle with our will that is worldly.

Good tactic I think you will get people to be on your side on this.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[steaver]

I think you don't like the answer so you are saying I am not answering your question.

I like the you are not answering a question I have and turning it around on me that I don't like your question.

That those who can't admit the struggle with sin and keep it the darkness have a problem.

We believers have no problem admitting we struggle with the will of our flesh and wants God to help us.

What was you fighting with before God helped you wasn't the will of your flesh to sin?

What do you use to fight it wasn't it the word of God where you found the will of God for you?

You didn't turn your back on your will to follow His will?

Am I to change what happen to me to match yours so you will agree with it?

Those who love the darkness practice sin and think they are hiding who they really are by staying in the darkness.

We who recognize who we are and there is a war against our will have come into the light and say we are sinners and want help to defeat the will of our flesh and turn to Jesus to save us and though Him now practice righteousness for the day we are given a Spiritual body with it's will in heavenly not this earthly body and will that is worldly.

To practice does not mean we are perfect we still struggle with our will that is worldly.

Good tactic I think you will get people to be on your side on this.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In essence then, when you stated......

Psalm109:31 - "A free agency can stay on the losing team and have fun and do what ever the will wants and die in your sin or you can go on the winning team it is going to be easy believes but you will have to fight against this will you think is free and turn to Jesus and learn from Him and you will find rest for your soul".....

.....a free agency does not necessarily die in their sins, they can be born-again and NOT die in their sin, and be on the winning team, even though they still do whatever the will wants at times.