Free Will vs. Free Agency

[Yeshua1]

Spurgeon was wrong, Jesus himself showed a man can will to do God's will.

Jhn 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

The man able to do the will of the father is the one who will believe unto jesus Christ and get saved, that is the will Jesus Himself told us about, and ONLY those who have been granted ears to hear/eyes to see by God can do that!

 

[JonC]

Let me adrress point 1.

Our will is not free from influence.
It is free from force, coercion.

God allows us to make choices, even Heaven and Hell.
Spurgeon was wrong, as was Calvin on this.

I agree that our will is free from force and coercion in terms of salvation. God does not force the unwilling man to turn towards Him, nor does he coerce salvation. I am not sure that Spurgeon and Calvin were wrong here (I recall Spurgeon clearly stating that “man will not be saved while he is yet unwilling,” and quoting another that he ran “willingly against his will, meaning his old will.” You rightly say that our will is not free from influence (again, Spurgeon denotes the common method man’s hearts are turned to be persuasion). So I think you are right regarding our will not being free from influence, but free from coercion, and disagree that Spurgeon would deny your position (especially since he said as much). I don’t know about Calvin.

 

[psalms109:31]

Of course not, but it was a sin offering. You confessed you were a sinner when you gave this offering. And God said he would accept this offering as atonement for that man. It is God who forgives.

What saves us is that you believed God and God credited that as Christ righteousness, if you did it because it is your will, when it came from God not you then you are mistaken, free will taught me that my will, will not do anything willingly it had to be forced.

You cannot inherit eternal life from your parents (blood) and you cannot will yourself to be born again, it is not within our power. This does not mean a man cannot will to accept Christ and be born again. I believe you are misinterpreting verse 13.

In my experience I had to go against my will to come to Christ, it didn't want me to go. It was enmity to God. This is not your experience but mine.

Who would want to be beaten and hung on a cross to die? This does not mean Jesus's will was always opposed to God's will.

I believe Jesus was teaching us what to do

No, you've listened to Reformed teachers like Luther and Spurgeon. Jesus implied that man can will to do God's will, I have already showed you the scripture.

I told you we can take God's will as our own

Again, you are talking about a very special case here, no one would want to be tortured and die on a cross.

I believe Jesus was teaching us what to do

Of course not, I have no power to save myself. But I did have to be willing to be saved. Jesus said you WILL NOT come to me.


Jhn 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Why weren't these persons saved? Because they were not WILLING to come to Jesus. Therefore you must be willing to be saved. Much scripture supports this.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

You have to be willing to be saved.



No, you can turn from being unwilling and become willing. Total inability is a lie.

This isn't the same will we are talking about it's an auxiliary verb

Free will is the ability to make a choice. If we are slaves of our will, then Jesus could not have chosen to do his Father's will.


Semantics, word games.

Jesus still said not my will but your will be done

Again, you cannot will yourself to be born again, it is not something you can perform in any way, but you must be willing to take the water of life, you must be willing to come to Jesus. It is Jesus that has the power to cause you to be born again.

Of coarse with an auxiliary verb

Exodus 35:29 The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the Lord, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the Lord had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.

I am not going to continue to repeat the same stuff over again, for you to repeat the same stuff over.

I am glad you got a good will not like my will that is enmity to God.

I don't have to look at Calvinism to know my self.

Jesus said not my will, but your will to teach us not because He was going through difficulties with the will of the flesh.

I all the time have to say not my will, but your will be done all the time. I am at war with my self.

My free agency wanting to continue to do as my will to lust after women to curse out the person that ran me off the road. I constantly have to say not my will, but your will be done.

You don't have that problem praise God.

It is not my will that saved I didn't wake up one day and say I will follow Jesus.

I got that will from God through the words of Jesus and my will didn't want to follow and I had to say not my will be done but your will be done.

Exodus 35:29 The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the Lord, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the Lord had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.

I had to make myself willing, I didn't want to come willingly by my will, but by my free agency I wasn't forced it was drawn by His loving kindness.

We are born again by the will of God not by the will of man.

I am born again not by doing my will, but by doing the will of God. It wasn't something my will came up with.

I must say not my will but your will be done, I will continue to repeat that, because I have to continue to do that until I get a Spiritual body with a will that is not worldly having worldly desires.

Something within me has to say not my will, but your will be done and if I am going against my will it isn't my will.

Plain and simple, but I am not you.

I do not use scripture like some to tell people that they can't come, but to come as they are, turn away from your will and turn to God and His will.

John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

The Calvinism is the Gospel can be summed up in one verse.

http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols37-39/chs2300.pdf

“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus
came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.”
1 Timothy 1:15.

"Now, this text contains the Gospel in brief, and yet I may say that it contains the Gospel in full.If you get condensed , you often miss the very soul and marrow of it, but here you get all the condensation possibilities, as if the great Truths of the Gospel were pressed together by a hydraulic ram , and yet there is not a particle of it left out. It is one of the “little Bibles,” as Luther used to call them—the Gospel in a verse.The essence of the whole Bible is here— “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

C.H. Spurgeon

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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