"Free willers teach false doctrine".

I made that point after you said what you did, so I don't see how it had anything to do with you saying that.

Also, your question was that Moses never mentioned they were made subject to vanity but he never said the were not either and I don't see where Moses mentioning it or not mentioning it had anything to do with the creature being made subject to vanity.

 

canad...

The "choice" was not between good and evil -- it was between obedience and disobedience, right?

Eve did not know what evil lurked behind disobedience. She knew good -- she was living in it. But she could still choose to disobey which is what she CHOSE.

By choosing, she was made subject to vanity -- to Satan. Remember, that is why he fell. I will... I will... I will... Ezek 28:12

We are subject to vanity/Satan now and know good (which Eve already knew) AND EVIL (which she didn't). Ergo, we can choose between good and evil in any and everything because we can perceive both -- not fully, but adequately.

skypair

 

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

"a tree to be desired to make one wise"

Is that not vanity?
When did she take of the fruit, before or after she looked at it?
Did the tree not appeal to her "lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life"?

 

No, because that is sin, and sin didn't into into the world until after they ate the fruit, according to scripture.

But, the "desired to make one wise" goes to the deception of Satan. The ability to "choose" between good and evil is the deception.

peace to youraying:

 

I need your prayers. I just got home from the gymn and the hospital had called. My heart tests turned out bad and they are now setting up for me to have a heart cath. I have had 2 different bypass heart surgeries in the past and a massive heart attack that took the bottom partof my heart. They said they would not do any more heart surgery, so I don't know what the future holds for me. I hope you will pray.
BBob

 

Will be glad to pray for you. Gordon

 

I'm praying with you, Brother Bob

 

Brother Bob - I will also pray with and others.

 

There was no "choice" at all. She did not "choose" to do something she "knew" to be wrong. Eve was deceived.

Eve did not "know" good until she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is why it is call the "knowledge" of "good and evil".

You keep saying Eve chose something, when scripture tells us she was deceived.

Scripture says the tree was of the knowledge of both good and evil. She didn't know either until after the fall.

All of your prior suppositions are untrue, Ergo, you conclusion is untrue as well.

peace to youraying:

 

Hmmm...

Can one be deceived if one does not know something.

One must know a thing (truth) to be mislead or falsly persuaded from that what you already KNOW.

She made a choice based upon what she knew being distorted by Satan. However she did know the truth of what not to, in the twisting of that truth she did not see it anymore as wrong - BUT she did KNOW it was wrong at the beginning of the coversation.

However Adam is a different story. Adam knew it was wrong, and partook without any deception being offered to him. He choose disobedience and Eve was lead into disobedience.


My purpose is to only show they did choose because they could choose between truth and error that was known to them, Obedience and disobedience.

I believe Adam and Eve were created innocent and not perfect. Innocently sinnless but able to sin by choice if that choice ever arose (Satan brought that choice by way of new information or knowledge. It was the first time they ever had a choice) And God knowing that man (even in that state of sinless innocence) if left to himself, he would fall unless God was with him every step of the way. Adam and Eve COULD have waited on the Lord, COULD have called out to the Lord for guidance but they did not. The same principle applies with sinful man. Man when left to himself will of himself fall short (sin) constantly and thourghly unless God come to him (like God in the Garden) with the purpose of remption, man will be lost in HIS sin forever.

 

Just checking my notes......... I've been reading about this debate since 1954. Did anyone win yet?

:wavey: Hello? Is there a winner out there?

 

Yes...

As things would have it..Calvinism won back on Friday, August 9, 1974. You see what happened was this. It was the same day Nixon resigned, and it never made it in the papers or TV.


Thanks for asking

 

:laugh: :laugh: Now that was funny!! :laugh: :laugh: