FREED SO WE CAN BE SLAVES AGAIN?

[Claudia_T]

GRACE... Freed from the penalty of sin so that we can go back into slavery again?

The Law shows us what we are supposed to be. We are supposed to love God and love our neighbor. That of course is broken down into 10 Commandments.

When we look at the Law we see how defective we are. We see how much we have fallen short of God's requirements.


*** Now at this particular point I must ask this question.

What is all of this for? Why did God require us to keep the Commandments in the first place?

Did He not really mean it?

Was it just to show us how sinful we are so that we would accept the sacrifice of Christ and be saved but just stay sinful the way that we are now?

I submit to you that those who do not believe that we need to keep the Law see it just about that way. They think that God just made this law for the sole purpose of letting us know we are sinners so that we can accept the sacrifice of Christ. Period. Thats all there is to it.

Doesnt that seem strange? Why go through all this trouble? I also submit to you that there is another view which goes like this...

We are in this fallen world. Jesus is called Jesus because "he shall save his people FROM their sins" ... notice it doesnt say IN their sins.

Mt:1:21: And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus came to DESTROY the works of the devil:

1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Notice it says "He that committeth sin is OF the devil"


If THIS is your outcome from the whole process of grace, then didnt something go amuck?

Does God take us through this entire process of grace only to leave us in slavery to sin?

Jesus said if we sin we are slaves to sin. But Jesus came to save us FROM our sins.

John 8
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Did God intend to free us from the PENALTY of sin, only to throw us back into the mud again? Is that what grace is all about?

2Pt:2:19, 20: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Claudia

 

[SpyHunter]

Claudia,
I hate sin and the part of me that shares in it. I do not follow the Law becaues it cannot save me; or rather, I cannot use it to save myself.
Think of it this way: I have a perfect knife set that is stainless steel and guaranteed to never go dull. I'm roasting a chicken for dinner and the chicken is left in the oven for too long. When I go to carve the chicken, my knives shred it to slivers. Even though they are perfect and guaranteed to never dullen, they are inadequate for what needs to be done. Please read the following passage with that understanding.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh;
4 so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

So the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled within us, but it is not we ourselves who have earned that righteousness. That is not a liscense to sin, that is a liscense to LIVE, because where there is sin there is death. This is why we have a righteousness manifested to us that is APART from the law (Romans 3:21), because we are unable to keep all of it. It doesn't matter if you keep part of it perfectly, if you cannot keep all of it then it has condemned you.

Galaltians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified in Christ, we also were found to be sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Let it not be said! -- There is no liscense to sin under Paul's Gospel.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I confirm myself as a transgressor. -- Antinomian heretics label themselves as transgressors despite what they falsely profess. God is not mocked.
Gal 2:19 For through the Law I died to the law, that I might live to God. -- The Law condemned me, yet I have been given the opportunity for new life in Christ which is above the Law insofar that I am able to disregard it as one disregards training wheels. Therefore, I am not a lawbreaker but a law graduate.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf. -- I do not walk in sin, even though I do not put myself under the Law, because Christ lives in me. The life which I now have, both in my existence and in my social relations, is based directly in my faith in Jesus' work of atonement, sanctification, redemption, and glorification of this broken vessel.
Gal 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness is through law, then Christ died without cause. -- I rely wholly and completely on the grace of God to resurrect me, change me, and make me like Christ who was sinless. If I think I can do any of that myself by following a bunch of rules, then Christ died for nothing. Let it not be said!

There is more I could say on the proper alternative to both legalism and antinomianism, but I will stop there for now. I don't want to dominate the thread through an over-abundance of text.

Blessings,
SpyHunter

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by SpyHunter:


So the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled within us, but it is not we ourselves who have earned that righteousness. That is not a liscense to sin, that is a liscense to LIVE, because where there is sin there is death. This is why we have a righteousness manifested to us that is APART from the law (Romans 3:21), because we are unable to keep all of it. It doesn't matter if you keep part of it perfectly, if you cannot keep all of it then it has condemned you.

I really like that part. I still have to read the rest of it...

I hadnt ever thought of that before put exactly that way.

When you say a "license to live" you mean since forgiven we arent under the death penalty, right?

ok Im going to go read the rest of what you said now..

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by SpyHunter:

Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I confirm myself as a transgressor. -- Antinomian heretics label themselves as transgressors despite what they falsely profess. God is not mocked.

Okay Im a little lost on this one.

By building up the things which I destroyed... do you mean going back to my sinful ways? or do the mean the law is destroyed?

Also when you say "Antinomian heretics label themselves as transgressors despite what they falsely profess."

Can you explain that? What is an Antinomian heretic?

Im not much up on all these different terms people use... and what do you mean when you say they label themselves as transgressors?

I'll read the rest later ..have to go do something

Claudia

 

[SpyHunter]

Antinomian means one who is lawless. Paul was the one who said they label themselves as transgressors. Basically, this means that there is a place one can walk before God that is neither legalistic nor lawless. If someone lives a sinful lifestyle, they are a sinner, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if they say, "God will forgive me." It's true that God forgives, but it's also true that we must be sincere and obedient to His Spirit.
Anyway, what Paul was saying in that verse is basically that disobedience is disobedience, plain and simple. If he were to rebuild his sinful lifestyle, then he would be a transgressor, plain and simple.
As for "liscense to live," I'm not just talking about being free from the law of sin and death --"the fact that I have sinned means I must die"-- but that the abundant and eternal life of Christ is within me, and it is because of this life of the Spirit that I overcome sin. Not through effort.
Remember Jesus' mission:
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

It's not just a life free from sin's penalty; it is surplus life, overflowing with vitality. This is the life of Christ made available to me apart from the Law. And it is why I do not put myself under the Law, otherwise I would become a slave when God has called me through adoption to be a son. Does that make more sense?

Blessings,
SpyHunter

 

[gekko]

spyhunter...

you say you hate sin. sin is the transgression of the law. therefore you hate to break the law of God. and in so doing you are following God's law when you dont sin (because you hate it) whether you say you are or not. right?

 

[Claudia_T]

spy,

but if you say you arent under the law, you also say you are refraining from sinning, so you are keeping the law, like gekko said.

 

[Claudia_T]

[Moderator's Note: According to the Official BB Policy established by the Webmaster:

Please do not post copyrighted or trademarked material without first obtaining the express permission to do so by the copyright or trademark holder.

Post only a summary (or key paragraph) and a link to the article instead. It is acceptable to quote other people's work so long as you credit them by name, include the title of the work, and do not repost the entire article.

[ May 09, 2006, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It is very disturbing when one posts extremely posts and it turns out to be the work of someone else. I believe the law calls this plagiurizing. The above is taken from EJ Waggoner's '1891 General Conference Sermons: Study # 11, Romans Chapter 7 and can be found at http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/romans_chapter7.htm

Please show some consideration and give credit where credit is due when quoting an author of a work. Otherwise, it is considered stealing.

[ May 09, 2006, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

[Bible-boy]

This thread is now being closed for Moderator review due to the continued posting of copyrighted material. Claudia, please see the Do not post copyrighted material thread at the top of this forum.

 

[Bible-boy]

I am re-opening this thread with the warning to you all not to post giant long direct quotations of other people's works. If it happens again the posts will be deleted without question.

 

[Claudia_T]

well I wish I'd of been able to explain myself about it but ok.