Freedom, Not Tariff, Is the Most Beautiful Word in the Dictionary

[KenH]

“Protective tariffs restrict the range of alternatives open to people by limiting mutually beneficial exchanges; they misallocate scarce resources; and weaken the dynamic gains from trade. Most important, they expand the power of the state, erode the rule of law, and attenuate individual freedom.”

- rest of article at https://www.cato.org/blog/freedom-not-tariff-most-beautiful-word-dictionary

 

[Dr. Bob]

Tariffs and duties are the only "taxes" our government should have. Protect our own businesses and livelihood.

 

[KenH]

Protect our own businesses and livelihood.

A major flaw with protectionism is that it protects some at the expense of others, puts money in the pockets of some and takes money from the pockets of others.

Tariffs and duties are the only "taxes" our government should have.

Are you advocating for Arkansas putting tariffs on goods coming in from Louisiana, Missouri putting tariffs on goods coming in from Arkansas, etc.?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Federalstas, not states or cities. US nation needs very little money to run (do what Constitution says)

Remember Fed income tax dismal failure in Civil War era and quickly abandoned. Not until 1913 modern system began, and only because promise to only tax rich.

 

[KenH]

Not until 1913

When the U.S. went off of the classical gold standard.

US nation needs very little money to run (do what Constitution says)

Tariffs are still a bad idea, regardless of the size of the government.

The amount of money needed would be even littler by basically returning to the first constitution of the U.S. - the Articles of Confederation of 1781.

 

[KenH]

“Our peaceful trading partners are not our enemies; they are our allies. We should beware of the demagogues who are ready to declare a trade war against our friends—weakening our economy, our national security, and the entire free world—all while cynically waving the American flag. The expansion of the international economy is not a foreign invasion; it is an American triumph, one we worked hard to achieve, and something central to our vision of a peaceful and prosperous world of freedom.”

- President Ronald Reagan

 

[KenH]

"Free trade consists simply in letting people buy and sell as they want to buy and sell. It is protection that requires force, for it consists in preventing people from doing what they want to do. Protective tariffs are as much applications of force as are blockading squadrons, and their object is the same—to prevent trade. The difference between the two is that blockading squadrons are a means whereby nations seek to prevent their enemies from trading; protective tariffs are a means whereby nations attempt to prevent their own people from trading. What protection teaches us, is to do to ourselves in time of peace what enemies seek to do to us in time of war."

- Henry George

 

[37818]

“Protective tariffs restrict the range of alternatives open to people by limiting mutually beneficial exchanges; they misallocate scarce resources; and weaken the dynamic gains from trade. Most important, they expand the power of the state, erode the rule of law, and attenuate individual freedom.”

- rest of article at https://www.cato.org/blog/freedom-not-tariff-most-beautiful-word-dictionary

Tariffs was the means our government used before income tax was imposed to raise revenue. How was revenge raised before tariffs?

How was freedom the means for government revenue?

 

[KenH]

Tariffs was the means our government used before income tax was imposed to raise revenue.

What would the tariff rate have to be to raise enough money in 2025 to pay for the military and the interest on the national debt and Social Security and Medicare and Medicare, etc.?

 

[37818]

What would the tariff rate have to be to raise enough money in 2025 to pay for the military and the interest on the national debt and Social Security and Medicare and Medicare, etc.?

Good questions.

How did our government raise revenue before tariffs?

Tariffs were before income tax.

 

[37818]

Commerce is the.means income is obtained. Ultimately there will be an excese tax of some sort on all products and services up front. Cannot get something for nothing. Anyone have a better understanding, from where?

 

[KenH]

Tariffs were before income tax.

Yes, back in the days when the federal government was a very tiny fraction of what it is today.

The issue I am discussing is not revenue policy, it is the defense of the free market system. I stand with Ronald Reagan and others in the past and those who continue to defend the free market versus those who want to wield the heavy hand of government over the economy.

 

[37818]

Yes, back in the days when the federal government was a very tiny fraction of what it is today.

The issue I am discussing is not revenue policy, it is the defense of the free market system. I stand with Ronald Reagan and others in the past and those who continue to defend the free market versus those who want to wield the heavy hand of government over the economy.

There are two issues. Bringing back a free market. And an issue of revenue. Forced socialism does not work.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Protecting a free market in a nation always includes tariffs on some goods from other sources IF their tariffs are undue. Fair play. China government subsidizes some industries, allowing them to undercut the world market. US buys cheap and our own production closes down. THEN China has monopoly control. Bad news.

Trump added tariffs to force Mexico and Canada to protect border. They both have dramatically changed, so most tariffs were not implemented. Some Canadian provinces trying the "man up" and not cooperate. We'll see who is hurt. But all these tariffs are NOT for economic reasons, but political. Soon pass.

Remember 1970 OPEC gas shortages? They set tariffs (raising price of oil) and US had to pay because OUR industry had listened to the siren song that we could cut back here (save money on wage/exploration) and make profit. Oops. Democrats today have about destroyed our oil and steel etc and we've listened to the song again. Oops. Shame on us. Get the jobs back!

 

[KenH]

Trump added tariffs to force Mexico and Canada to protect border.

Hardly any fentanyl comes across the border with Canada, and hardly any illegal immigration takes place at the border with Canada.

Democrats today have about destroyed our oil

"Crude oil production in the United States, including condensate, averaged 12.9 million barrels per day (b/d) in 2023, breaking the previous U.S. and global record of 12.3 million b/d, set in 2019. Average monthly U.S. crude oil production established a monthly record high in December 2023 at more than 13.3 million b/d.

The crude oil production record in the United States in 2023 is unlikely to be broken in any other country in the near term because no other country has reached production capacity of 13.0 million b/d.
...
Crude oil production in the United States began increasing again in 2009, as producers increasingly applied hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling techniques, and has increased steadily since."

- rest of article at United States produces more crude oil than any country, ever - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

 

[JonC]

We will never have free trade across nations unless we have a one world government.

Take Canada. If we had no tariffs it still wouldn't be free trade because Canada subsidizes the production of many products. Take China. Without equal labor practices there can be no fair trade. One nation would simoly undercut the economy of another.

Regarding oil.....it does not matter how much the US raises production (the US is already a net-exporter of oil) without the infrastructure to make greater use of domestic oil.

 

[KenH]

We will never have free trade across nations unless we have a one world government.

Take Canada. If we had no tariffs it still wouldn't be free trade because Canada subsidizes the production of many products. Take China. Without equal labor practices there can be no fair trade. One nation would simoly undercut the economy of another.

I advocate for “free” trade, an objective term simply meaning no tariffs on imports.

I have no interest in “fair” trade, a subjective term as there are way too many variables to be taken into account to figure out what is really “fair” trade. The idea of “fair” trade ends up with the heavy hand of government making subjective judgments on one, two, or just a handful of the many different variables as to what it arbitrarily decides is “fair” trade. And I have no interest in advocating for the heavy hand of government.

 

[JonC]

I advocate for “free” trade, an objective term simply meaning no tariffs on imports.

I have no interest in “fair” trade, a subjective term as there are way too many variables to be taken into account to figure out what is really “fair” trade. The idea of “fair” trade ends up with the heavy hand of government making subjective judgments on one, two, or just a handful of the many different variables as to what it arbitrarily decides is “fair” trade. And I have no interest in advocating for the heavy hand of government.

But you are wrong. "Free-trade" does not mean "no tariffs on imports". Free-trade is trade between nations without government intervention (including tariffs).

If we had no tariffs (and other nations had no tariffs) then it still would not be free-trade. The US could not compete because it has laws that competing nations do not have to protect workers. These laws result in higher costs. Then you have the problem if governments subsidizing energy or other production resources, which allows for a lower cost.

Simply getting rid of tariffs does not equate to free trade.

Trump's reciprical tariffs (formerly a DNC economic solution....which to their credit worked) is one step in moving towards free trade, but it does not address factors like child labor, slave labor, unfair labor practices, government subsidies, etc.


How do you envision US manufacturers competing against nations using slave labor or child labor without resorting to those evils?

Do you believe the US government should match financial interests in businesses to meet what governments like China provide in order to keep the US economy afloat in a "free-trade" economy?

 

[JesusFan]

Tariffs and duties are the only "taxes" our government should have. Protect our own businesses and livelihood.

Think that Tarrifs should be used to "level the playing field", as just found out Canada jacks on taxes to American dairy products between 240-390 percent

 

[KenH]

I see no reason why the American people should support tariffs. For any government to impose tariffs is a slap in a face to their own citizens. What the current presidential administration in the United States is, in essence, saying: " Well, other countries slap their citizens in the face with tariffs, so we are going to the slap Americans with tariffs, too. Since other governments make their citizens suffer, we are going to make you suffer, too."

And, amazingly, there are Americans, who after being slapped in the face by the current presidential administration, stick their faces back out and say, "Slap me again! Slap me again! Slap me harder!"