Freedom of Choice and Abortion: Would you take away that freedom? Would you make it a criminal act?

[JamesL]

This thread is moot. Abortion is legal and that, more than likely, will never change. Why the complaint against those who would LIKE to see it changed?

Of course the law doesn't save. Who said it did?

I'm not for fighting against abortion primarily so that lost souls will be saved. That's what preaching, teaching, evangelism, helping these girls/women know the truth, Christian love, holy living, personal testimony, feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and much more all in the name of Jesus is for.

I openly oppose it and seek out leaders that are pro-life and applaud my state for making laws that require these girls and women to be provided information on all of their choices, not just abortion, and where to get help. I do this primarily because I don't want anymore babies slaughtered. I feel that God would want his people to fight this. No?

So, the consensus here is that taking a stand against abortion openly and publicly and politically won't do a #$@% thing. In fact, it will just make the lost hate God even more and hate Christianity even more.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Uhh,
Making a law to require information is defferent from making a law prohibiting behavior.

Abortion is nothing more than the modern evangelical drum. At one time it was drinking.

Maybe I'm not speaking to your motive, but i don't think most "Christians" are desiring that someone know Christ through laws, or even that people will act more godly.

I think most who fight against abortion are self righteous hypocrites who think "if everyone acted more like ME..."

And that shows through the grandstanding and soap box condemnation of anyone who's different.

 

[Zaac]

Uhh,
Making a law to require information is defferent from making a law prohibiting behavior.

Abortion is nothing more than the modern evangelical drum. At one time it was drinking.

Maybe I'm not speaking to your motive, but i don't think most "Christians" are desiring that someone know Christ through laws, or even that people will act more godly.

I think most who fight against abortion are self righteous hypocrites who think "if everyone acted more like ME..."

And that shows through the grandstanding and soap box condemnation of anyone who's different.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Uhh,
Making a law to require information is defferent from making a law prohibiting behavior.

The law's intent after interviewing thousands of women who have had abortions in my state was not to prohibit behavior, but to make sure these young women knew of adoption choices, places where they can get assistance, and other helps in order to prevent behavior. It will never be prohibited again in this country.

And at least it's doing SOMETHING - at least the men and women in the Louisiana legislature have done SOMETHING to bring awareness to people of their options and maybe to prevent someone from having, promoting, encouraging, or coercing an abortion. That's how the law came about. Over 60% of the women interviewed said that they felt coerced by someone or some attitude or some social construct to terminate their pregnancies. They weren't shirking the blame. They just reported what motivated the final decision. And having known girls and women who have had abortions, I can see where in actuality, the percentage would be higher.

As I said, I'm proud of my state for doing that.

Abortion is nothing more than the modern evangelical drum. At one time it was drinking.

Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Killing babies is a sin. Apples. Oranges.

I think most who fight against abortion are self righteous hypocrites who think "if everyone acted more like ME..." And that shows through the grandstanding and soap box condemnation of anyone who's different.

Hmmm... I don't think I gave that impress that I condemn people who aren't like me. I certainly don't condemn women who have had abortions. I've taken into my confidence, my counsel, and as friends. I have no room to condemn anyone.

 

[MB]

He's not saying abortion is okay. His argument is that forcing people to abide by a biblically-based law, and expecting them to "come to Jesus" by doing so, is wrong. In other words: the law does not save.

How can God's Law be wrong?

So you would do away with all biblically based laws? . Think about what you just said. That means no Law against most of the criminal codes in America. Not only that most wouldn't live long enough to hear about Christ if this were so. Millions of babies have been murdered since legalized abortion and not one of them ever heard the gospel. What about their rights?. What about their Salvation? The Laws we have were written on the hearts of all men by God.

I agree the law does not save but the law is God's will . We are not a slave to the Law, but those with out Christ are slaves to the Law. Make no mistake Christians are free from the Law only because they repent and die to sin daily.

Abortion was against the law until Roe verses Wade the judge at that proceeding failed to uphold this law. The consequences of this action are that the law is no longer legal so now they allow abortion. Abortions have increased since then by leaps and bounds. There are women that have this done on a regular bases. The allowance of this makes every American responsible because we can stop it. By placing the law back on the books as murder. You and I pay for these abortions in our taxes and this makes all of us responsible. If you think about it, by doing nothing like making it against the law once more we are just as guilty as those who do this horrible thing. The law has made us all participants in there crime against God
MB

 

[JamesL]

Hmmm... I don't think I gave that impress that I condemn people who aren't like me. I certainly don't condemn women who have had abortions. I've taken into my confidence, my counsel, and as friends. I have no room to condemn anyone.

The maybe, just maybe, what I said...."Maybe I'm not speaking to your motive..." should have been considered.

I noticed you "seem" to have intentionally removed that when you quoted me. But again, I don't know your motive, only what it "seems" to be.

And I know drinking isn't a sin. But lust is. Are you an anti-lust advocate in your state? What about other sins?

It's also a sin to have any God other than ours. Are you blaring a trumpet to make it a law to educate people about Christianity?

Are you fighting to make coveting illegal?

 

[Zaac]

The maybe, just maybe, what I said...."Maybe I'm not speaking to your motive..." should have been considered.

I noticed you "seem" to have intentionally removed that when you quoted me. But again, I don't know your motive, only what it "seems" to be.

And I know drinking isn't a sin. But lust is. Are you an anti-lust advocate in your state? What about other sins?

It's also a sin to have any God other than ours. Are you blaring a trumpet to make it a law to educate people about Christianity?

Are you fighting to make coveting illegal?

This response should be good.

 

[JamesL]

How can God's Law be wrong?

Paul dealt with that issue in Romans 7, you should probably read it. The Law is good and just.

So you would do away with all biblically based laws? . Think about what you just said.

Ummm, I think that's what YOU just said, then tried ro palm off onto someone else.

Next time you accuse someone of having said something, you should make sure you can put it in a quote.

That will help you stop sinning.

Abortion was against the law until Roe verses Wade the judge at that proceeding failed to uphold this law. The consequences of this action are that the law is no longer legal so now they allow abortion. Abortions have increased since then by leaps and bounds.....
MB

*yawn*

Are you working as vigorously to make vascetomies illegal? What about contraceptives?

See, if you want to make it about honoring God, the issue is much larger than abortion. God is to be honored as the giver and taker of life. Any time you take that matter into your own hands you dishonor God.

How many Christian women have their tubes tied because SHE doesn't want any kids? What if God DOES want her to have more? And she flippantly gives no concern for her own God and has them tied.

You seem to have selected one Law, try to impose it upon unbelievers as the "big one", and give no concern for the intent behind the Law

 

[Zaac]

Paul dealt with that issue in Romans 7, you should probably read it. The Law is good and just.



Ummm, I think that's what YOU just said, then tried ro palm off onto someone else.

Next time you accuse someone of having said something, you should make sure you can put it in a quote.

That will help you stop sinning.



*yawn*

Are you working as vigorously to make vascetomies illegal? What about contraceptives?

See, if you want to make it about honoring God, the issue is much larger than abortion. God is to be honored as the fiver and taker of life. Any time you take that matter into your own hands you dishonor God.

How many Christian women have their tubes tied because SHE doesn't want any kids? What if God DOES want her to have more? And she flippantly gives no concern for her own God and has them tied.

You seem to have selected one Law, try to impose it upon unbelievers as the "big one", and give no concern for the intent behind the Law

 

[Don]

How can God's Law be wrong?

No one said it was. What was said was that trying to save people via the law is wrong. Unless you believe we're saved by following the law, which is being saved by our own works; which, if that's what you believe, then we have a deeper problem....

 

[Scarlett O.]

I noticed you "seem" to have intentionally removed that when you quoted me. But again, I don't know your motive, only what it "seems" to be.

~le sigh~

When I quote a person's post, I go line by line and respond to what needs to be said and erase the rest.

And I know drinking isn't a sin. But lust is. Are you an anti-lust advocate in your state? What about other sins?

It's also a sin to have any God other than ours. Are you blaring a trumpet to make it a law to educate people about Christianity?

Are you fighting to make coveting illegal?

I'm not even fighting to make abortion illegal. That fight is lost and we have BEEN under God's judgment for it. I am vocal about laws and education that can prevent more abortions from happening. I am for defunding Planned Parenthood. I have a personal stake in this as people I love have been devastated by abortion.

No, I'm not blaring any horns to force people to be educated about Christianity. I have written a scathing indictment of Fifty Shades of Gray from the viewpoint of a Christian woman and a feminist and made sure that every woman I was comfortable with having this discussion with read it. With some, the conversation wasn't easy nor pleasant.

Why is it - and maybe I am not understanding you and others who think like you - that we can't oppose abortion publicly and politically?

Why can't we oppose homosexuality publicly and politically?

The Apostle Paul when speaking to the church at Corinth cited very specific sins. He didn't run the whole gamut. No, I am not an activist against every sin known to man. There's no way possible to do that. There's too much sin. I am opposed to sin as a whole - obviously.

I could go on about things presently and in my past that I have actively opposed, but I shouldn't have to defend my stance against abortion and homosexuality by proving that I oppose other sin. My opposing sin as a whole is a given.

But I am specifically vocal about what affects my world. I have homosexual friends whom I love and it grieves me that they are lost. I invite them to my bible studies, to church, and they know I love them. They also know where I stand. I have seen women and girls go through deep depression years after abortions. I have seen grandparents devastated.

I don't understand why Christians who oppose these things and voice their opinion on it are hypocrites.

 

[agedman]

For sure. Apostle Paul said it, too

I would not have known coveting, except that the Law said "do not covet". But sin took advantage of the Law and produced in me all kinds of covetous desires
---Romans 7:7-8

James,

Thank you for that Scripture. How fortunate we are that Paul was so transparent that as we read the words it may speak in ways particular to each believer's heart. That sin is not just a single seed producing a single fruit, but a seed that brings much fruit, each bearing more seed.

Thank you, for God giving you the impulse to share that verse for me. The meditation it brought was a wonderful time of thankfulness and praise.

 

[True Puritan]

The Bible says, thou shall not kill. Abortion is not a woman's choice. It is nothing but murder of the first degree and abomination unto God. Didn't God destroy pagan nations in history who sacrificed their children to their gods like Molech ?

 

[evenifigoalone]

This thread is moot. Abortion is legal and that, more than likely, will never change. Why the complaint against those who would LIKE to see it changed?

Of course the law doesn't save. Who said it did?

I'm not for fighting against abortion primarily so that lost souls will be saved. That's what preaching, teaching, evangelism, helping these girls/women know the truth, Christian love, holy living, personal testimony, feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and much more all in the name of Jesus is for.

I openly oppose it and seek out leaders that are pro-life and applaud my state for making laws that require these girls and women to be provided information on all of their choices, not just abortion, and where to get help. I do this primarily because I don't want anymore babies slaughtered. I feel that God would want his people to fight this. No?

So, the consensus here is that taking a stand against abortion openly and publicly and politically won't do a #$@% thing. In fact, it will just make the lost hate God even more and hate Christianity even more.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Well, I don't think most people in this thread are saying people should be prochoice. I'm decidedly prolife. That doesn't mean I agree with everything other prolifers may say or that I can't criticize methods I don't agree with.
I agree with JameL's posts here more on virtue of what he's saying being the main reason I'm libertarian rather than conservative--so I suppose it's a bit less to do with the issue of abortion itself, for me. I'm still prolife, my reasoning for it is just a bit different than that of many conservatives'.

 

[MB]

Uhh,
Making a law to require information is defferent from making a law prohibiting behavior.

Abortion is nothing more than the modern evangelical drum. At one time it was drinking.

Maybe I'm not speaking to your motive, but i don't think most "Christians" are desiring that someone know Christ through laws, or even that people will act more godly.

I think most who fight against abortion are self righteous hypocrites who think "if everyone acted more like ME..."

And that shows through the grandstanding and soap box condemnation of anyone who's different.

No offense but I think this kind of thinking shows the lack of concern for the children involved. No matter the political correctness. It's just plain wrong to ignore murder by calling it abortion. It's just plain wrong to say they aren't human. Every unborn baby has a spirit the proof of this is their movement inside the mother. The Bible says it's the spirit that quickens the flesh.
MB

 

[JamesL]

No offense but I think this kind of thinking shows the lack of concern for the children involved. No matter the political correctness. It's just plain wrong to ignore murder by calling it abortion. It's just plain wrong to say they aren't human. Every unborn baby has a spirit the proof of this is their movement inside the mother. The Bible says it's the spirit that quickens the flesh.
MB

You'll have to help me out a little bit. You quoted me, but everything in your reply is directed at nothing you quoted.

????

 

[MB]

You'll have to help me out a little bit. You quoted me, but everything in your reply is directed at nothing you quoted.

????

It's simple a law was made so women could abort by a Judge who had no legal right to change the law against abortion in the first place. He is not a legislator. His changing the law was unconstitutional. the supreme court justices should have been impeached

You'll have to help me out a little bit. You quoted me, but everything in your reply is directed at nothing you quoted.

????

Sorry about that I made a mistake
MB

 

[Don]

It's simple a law was made so women could abort by a Judge who had no legal right to change the law against abortion in the first place. He is not a legislator. His changing the law was unconstitutional. the supreme court justices should have been impeached

Sorry about that I made a mistake
MB

As much as I agree with you (and I honestly do) -- what they did was "legal." It wasn't right, and it wasn't moral; but it was "legal," and followed the rules of law set forth by this nation. Doesn't matter if we agree; but that's why we have the option to use those same rules of law to try to overturn it, and have it made illegal again.

 

[JamesL]

It's simple a law was made so women could abort by a Judge who had no legal right to change the law against abortion in the first place. He is not a legislator. His changing the law was unconstitutional. the supreme court justices should have been impeached...

I suppose what I want to know is:
What On Earth Does That Have To Do With Me?

Why are you telling ME these things?

You started out with "no offense, but...." as if you were about to address something I've written. Then you go on a tangent about stuff I never even mentioned. Are you sure you've got the right guy?

 

[nodak]

I find it so painful and sickening that some even question if we should take the choice to kill my son away from people. His birth occurred shortly after the Roe v Wade ruling, and his birth mom was clear had the ruling come earlier in her pregnancy she would have had him dismembered and scraped out of her body and tossed in the trash.

Look around at anyone you love. At any age, would you think it offensive or unkind to tell someone they did not have the right to dismember and discard your loved one?

 

[Kevin]

...I've got a 1931 Cadillac Pick-up truck with only 2,123 original miles on it. Needs a battery. Anyone in need of a truck?

Is it a Automatic? Do you think it would haul a 35' goose-neck RV trailer? Whistling