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Freemasonry
- Thread starter Turbeville
- Start date
Eladar,
But...we neven become experientially *perfect* in this life.
"If we say we has not sinned, we make him a liar and His word is not in us."(1 John 1:10)
God knows full well that none of us will ever be able to say "I am now perfect God. I never sin anymore...I, with your help of course, have purged myself of all of it. I am now sinless in deed, thought and motive."
He knew we could never be sinless in a practical, experiential sense, so He did what none of us...either before or after our salvation...could ever do.
He made us fit for heaven by dying for our sins on the cross, then rising from the dead and imputing His perfect rightiousness to us through the indwelling Holy Spirit...
"But now the rightiousness of God apart from the Law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, even the rightiousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe, for their is no difference." (Romans 3:21-22)
"He made Him who knew no sin (Christ) to be sin for us, (Christ took our sins upon Himself and suffered our execution) that we might become the rightiousness of God (imputed rightiousness) in Him" (2 Cor 5:21)
Its an unimaginably wonderful thing that our God has done for us.
Praise the Lord! \o/
Mike
Thats what I am referring to as well. God literally imputes Christs sinless rightiousness to us.
Then those folks are exceedingly decieved. 1st of all, none of us will ever experientially attain sinlessness on earth, either before or after being born again. Of course, after we are born again, we will be about the buisiness of growing. Putting off the old, and putting on the new. We will become more and more consistent in our thoughts and behaviors by allowing Christ to live freely through more and more of our life.
But...we neven become experientially *perfect* in this life.
"If we say we has not sinned, we make him a liar and His word is not in us."(1 John 1:10)
God knows full well that none of us will ever be able to say "I am now perfect God. I never sin anymore...I, with your help of course, have purged myself of all of it. I am now sinless in deed, thought and motive."
He knew we could never be sinless in a practical, experiential sense, so He did what none of us...either before or after our salvation...could ever do.
He made us fit for heaven by dying for our sins on the cross, then rising from the dead and imputing His perfect rightiousness to us through the indwelling Holy Spirit...
"But now the rightiousness of God apart from the Law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, even the rightiousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe, for their is no difference." (Romans 3:21-22)
"He made Him who knew no sin (Christ) to be sin for us, (Christ took our sins upon Himself and suffered our execution) that we might become the rightiousness of God (imputed rightiousness) in Him" (2 Cor 5:21)
Its an unimaginably wonderful thing that our God has done for us.
Praise the Lord! \o/
Mike
Here is just a small part of one of my online articles regarding Freemasonry. There is a definite connection between New Age / Spiritualism / Freemasonry:
Helena Blavatsky, Founder of the Theosophical Society, penned these astounding words:
"One of the most hidden secrets involves the so-called fall of Angels. Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviours and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God. Satan (or Lucifer) represents the Centrifugal Energy of the Universe this ever-living symbol of self-sacrifice for the intellectual independence of humanity." H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, pg. 215, 216, 220,245,255,533
That entire last line sits on a page headed: "Holy Satan"!
Blavatsky wrote:
Lucifer represents Life Thought Progress Civilization Liberty Independence Lucifer is the Logos the Serpent, the Saviour. " H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Vol. II pg. 171,225,255
THE SERPENT SAVIOUR
Lets see what the Masons have to say about the Serpent being "The Savior"
"The Serpent is universally esteemed a legitimate symbol of Freemasonry." George Oliver, Signs and Symbols , New York, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1906, p. 36
Did you hear that? The Serpent is the "legitimate symbol" of Freemasonry! This is another admission by this Masonic author that Freemasonry worships Satan! But now let's hear how they regard the Serpent as "Savior of the World, just as Helena Blavatsky, the "Mother of the New Age Movement " said that they do:
"The serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Savior, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil." Manly P. Hall, 33 Degree Mason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages
----------
You can read more here by going to: http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org and clicking on the "Masonic Lodge" button.
Claudia
Helena Blavatsky, Founder of the Theosophical Society, penned these astounding words:
"One of the most hidden secrets involves the so-called fall of Angels. Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviours and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God. Satan (or Lucifer) represents the Centrifugal Energy of the Universe this ever-living symbol of self-sacrifice for the intellectual independence of humanity." H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, pg. 215, 216, 220,245,255,533
That entire last line sits on a page headed: "Holy Satan"!
Blavatsky wrote:
Lucifer represents Life Thought Progress Civilization Liberty Independence Lucifer is the Logos the Serpent, the Saviour. " H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Vol. II pg. 171,225,255
THE SERPENT SAVIOUR
Lets see what the Masons have to say about the Serpent being "The Savior"
"The Serpent is universally esteemed a legitimate symbol of Freemasonry." George Oliver, Signs and Symbols , New York, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1906, p. 36
Did you hear that? The Serpent is the "legitimate symbol" of Freemasonry! This is another admission by this Masonic author that Freemasonry worships Satan! But now let's hear how they regard the Serpent as "Savior of the World, just as Helena Blavatsky, the "Mother of the New Age Movement " said that they do:
"The serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Savior, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil." Manly P. Hall, 33 Degree Mason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages
----------
You can read more here by going to: http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org and clicking on the "Masonic Lodge" button.
Claudia
As far as the perfection issue goes, I think lots of Christians tend to make God out to be a legalist. They claim we cannot be perfect, and in so doing they make God out also to be a liar because after all the Bible gives instances of those whom God regarded as "perfect"
Lk:1:5,6: There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Job:1:1: There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job:1:8: And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Maybe it is your idea of what "perfect" is that needs to be changed. The Bible DOES admonish us as Christian to be "Christlike" and to walk as He walked. Thats why we are called by His name CHRIST-ians. We are to be married to Christ, and to become as one with Him.
------------
And in addition to that, God would be a cruel tyrant if He demands perfection of us and then makes it impossible to do as He says. I dont know why people cannot seem to just take the Bible as it reads:
Mt:5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Lk:8:14: And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Rom:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Eph:4:12: For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ
Phil:3:15: Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Col:1:28: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
Col:3:14: And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
2Tm:3:17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Heb:6:1: Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God
Heb:13:21: Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jms:1:4: But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Jms:1:25: But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jms:2:22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
1Pt:5:10: But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Jn:2:5: But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn:4:12: No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Rv:3:2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
---------
Jesus told us we must love God with all our body, soul, heart and mind. Giving of ourselves completely to God and loving Him with all our hearts is what makes us perfect in works. We must never trust to good works however, we must constantly trust in the Saviour's forgiveness and atonement for our sins. But Jesus didnt come here to leave us wallowing in the dirt of sin. He came to redeem us. We will not have perfect knowledge of God here on earth, so in that sense cannot be perfect for we wont perfectly know His will. But I think that no matter what excuses we may try to make for our disregard of God's will, in our hearts we know that God wants us to give our wills over to Him and to serve Him with all our hearts.
We will make mistakes, to be sure, but God is a loving Father and not a tyrant who sits there just waiting for us to make a mistake. This is SATAN'S false picture of God that he tries to push upon us. Then after Satan does this, he claims we cannot actually do what God tells us to do. These are the sentiments of God's enemy... not of our God nor of His Word.
It is so sad that so many Christians actually view the God of the Old Testament as a cruel exacting God but that His Son Jesus came along and somehow talked His Father into having compassion upon us. But the truth is, Jesus said He came to "show us the Father". 2Cor:5:19: "God was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto himself"
If people would stop making God out to be the legalistic mean Father, then they would also stop viewing God as asking perfection of us when we really cannot give what He asks of us.
Claudia
[ May 12, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
Lk:1:5,6: There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Job:1:1: There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job:1:8: And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Maybe it is your idea of what "perfect" is that needs to be changed. The Bible DOES admonish us as Christian to be "Christlike" and to walk as He walked. Thats why we are called by His name CHRIST-ians. We are to be married to Christ, and to become as one with Him.
------------
And in addition to that, God would be a cruel tyrant if He demands perfection of us and then makes it impossible to do as He says. I dont know why people cannot seem to just take the Bible as it reads:
Mt:5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Lk:8:14: And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Rom:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Eph:4:12: For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ
Phil:3:15: Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Col:1:28: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
Col:3:14: And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
2Tm:3:17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Heb:6:1: Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God
Heb:13:21: Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jms:1:4: But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Jms:1:25: But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jms:2:22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
1Pt:5:10: But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Jn:2:5: But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn:4:12: No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Rv:3:2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
---------
Jesus told us we must love God with all our body, soul, heart and mind. Giving of ourselves completely to God and loving Him with all our hearts is what makes us perfect in works. We must never trust to good works however, we must constantly trust in the Saviour's forgiveness and atonement for our sins. But Jesus didnt come here to leave us wallowing in the dirt of sin. He came to redeem us. We will not have perfect knowledge of God here on earth, so in that sense cannot be perfect for we wont perfectly know His will. But I think that no matter what excuses we may try to make for our disregard of God's will, in our hearts we know that God wants us to give our wills over to Him and to serve Him with all our hearts.
We will make mistakes, to be sure, but God is a loving Father and not a tyrant who sits there just waiting for us to make a mistake. This is SATAN'S false picture of God that he tries to push upon us. Then after Satan does this, he claims we cannot actually do what God tells us to do. These are the sentiments of God's enemy... not of our God nor of His Word.
It is so sad that so many Christians actually view the God of the Old Testament as a cruel exacting God but that His Son Jesus came along and somehow talked His Father into having compassion upon us. But the truth is, Jesus said He came to "show us the Father". 2Cor:5:19: "God was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto himself"
If people would stop making God out to be the legalistic mean Father, then they would also stop viewing God as asking perfection of us when we really cannot give what He asks of us.
Claudia
[ May 12, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
Mike,
I hear what you are saying, but what you are saying is not what they believe. What they believe is that sanctification culminates as perfection. It is possible for a person to reach such a perfect state that a person will never commit what would be classified a sin.
It isn't that a person's sins are forgiven and that although the act is sinful we are no longer under sin. It is that 'fully sanctified' (my own term) people are perfect. If God were to eliminate that person's history, this person would be found righteous by God without the need of Jesus' blood. People actually achieve perfection.
I hear what you are saying, but what you are saying is not what they believe. What they believe is that sanctification culminates as perfection. It is possible for a person to reach such a perfect state that a person will never commit what would be classified a sin.
It isn't that a person's sins are forgiven and that although the act is sinful we are no longer under sin. It is that 'fully sanctified' (my own term) people are perfect. If God were to eliminate that person's history, this person would be found righteous by God without the need of Jesus' blood. People actually achieve perfection.
tamborine lady
Active Member
O.F.F.
Your explanation makes sense. Thank you for clearing that up for me. I knew it could not possibly be just loyalty to an oath.
Thanks again.
Tam,
Jacob Webber
New Member
I have never really heard of a Mason being scared that He would lose his life if he explained the secrets of Freemasonry. I heard a Historian John j. Robinson talk about the penalties and how they came about in a Book called Born in the Blood. The only reason I have heard that a Mason would not tell you the secrets is because he wishes to be a man of his word. Think about how many people have left Freemasonry and made acusations about them and reveiled there secrets and yet they are still alive.
As for people being able to achive perfection I would have to disagree for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Only thru the saving grace of Jesus Christ does one become perfect.
As for people being able to achive perfection I would have to disagree for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Only thru the saving grace of Jesus Christ does one become perfect.
Marcia
Active Member
As far as the verses posted by Claudia, I think the word used as "perfect" there actually means "complete." So we become complete in Christ as we are sanctified and conformed to His image. I am not sure we can equate the word 'perfect' in those verses with 'sinless' although as we are sanctified we should be resisting sin more. (Maybe a Bible scholar could comment?) If we were not becoming more complete (perfect) in Christ, then it would mean His power of redemption fails for the believer, which is impossible. However, I don't see how any person can be sinless in this life.
These are some helpful sites on ministries dealing with Freemasonry:
Ex-Masons for Jesus
Ephesians 5-11 Ministries
Rooftop Ministries
The last one deals mainly with co-masonry groups (groups for women and girls).
These are some helpful sites on ministries dealing with Freemasonry:
Ex-Masons for Jesus
Ephesians 5-11 Ministries
Rooftop Ministries
The last one deals mainly with co-masonry groups (groups for women and girls).
Paper trail: The dollar decoded
April 22, 2004: 6:34 PM EDT
By David Futrelle, MONEY Magazine
Some of the esoteric (and not so esoteric) knowledge contained within:
The one-eyed pyramid The surreal seeing pyramid on the back of the dollar bill combines two Masonic symbols: the Eye of Providence in a Radiant Triangle and a truncated pyramid. On the bill, the triangle containing the eye visually completes the pyramid, suggesting that the new nation would be completed with an assist from an all-seeing God...To learn more, and "finding meaning on your dollar bill" (click here)
By the way Marcia, another good site to learn the truth about Freemasonry from a Christian perspective is: The Order of Former Freemasons (O.F.F.)
Mike Gentry
Founder of O.F.F.
April 22, 2004: 6:34 PM EDT
By David Futrelle, MONEY Magazine
Some of the esoteric (and not so esoteric) knowledge contained within:
The one-eyed pyramid The surreal seeing pyramid on the back of the dollar bill combines two Masonic symbols: the Eye of Providence in a Radiant Triangle and a truncated pyramid. On the bill, the triangle containing the eye visually completes the pyramid, suggesting that the new nation would be completed with an assist from an all-seeing God...To learn more, and "finding meaning on your dollar bill" (click here)
By the way Marcia, another good site to learn the truth about Freemasonry from a Christian perspective is: The Order of Former Freemasons (O.F.F.)
Mike Gentry
Founder of O.F.F.
Here is a link to a site that dispels a number of myths about Freemasonry. There are a number of websites that make all manner of claims about Freemasonry often having very much a root of bitterness sown in there.
http://p212.ezboard.com/bmasonicdiscussionatthelodgeroom
People are quick to state that Freemasonry is a Religion and a whole manner of other claims. Yet if we get past looking at all the second hand accustations and look at there own documentation we find that this is not the case. In fact for the Christian, Freemasonry actually encourages them in Christianity.
I realise that sounds very much hard to take, but consider the Freemasons own document from the first degree ritual.
"As a Freemason, let me reccomend to your most serious contemplation the V.S.L (in western countries a KJV), charging you to consider it as the unerring standard of truth and to regulate you actions by the Divine precepts that it contains".
If Freemasonry was anti Christianity, why does the first degree ritual encourage Christians to seek out their Bible and the Divine Precepts that it contains?
Freemasonry is not a religious order but a Fraternity that refers people back to their own religion. Much like the parliment, it has a Bible and a Prayer which are symbolic.
What is the difference between some of anti masonic movements and Gnosticsm? Not alot.
Both teach that Christians can be cursed and that specific mantras or prayers are required in order to "break" these things. Yet Jesus says in John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be Free Indeed".
Jesus set us free from all curses. Jesus finished it all on the Cross when His blood paid for it all. When we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour, All curses are broken forever. Yet go and have a look at some of the anti masonic sites and they are full of the Gnostic teachings that Christians that are in Freemasonry are under Curses and there families are under the control of generational curses etc etc.
Throughout the history of the church, the church leadership has had to speak out against Gnostiscm as it infiltrates the churches. I encourage you to consider if when a person is born again, if the Blood of Jesus is enough to redeem that person? Or if additional things are needed to set people free? Jesus Himself said in John 10:10 "I have come that they might have life and have it more abundantly". Not only has Jesus set us free from ALL spiritual bondage, but he has given us more abundant life than what we had before.
I have no doubt that people will be able to find stones to throw at Freemasons. Any organisation that large is going to have problems. Yet do not be drawn into Gnosticm. That is a false gospel that leads people into fear, guilt and self condemnation. All you need is found in Jesus. What He did on the cross will set you free for all eternity if you ask Him for it.
http://p212.ezboard.com/bmasonicdiscussionatthelodgeroom
People are quick to state that Freemasonry is a Religion and a whole manner of other claims. Yet if we get past looking at all the second hand accustations and look at there own documentation we find that this is not the case. In fact for the Christian, Freemasonry actually encourages them in Christianity.
I realise that sounds very much hard to take, but consider the Freemasons own document from the first degree ritual.
"As a Freemason, let me reccomend to your most serious contemplation the V.S.L (in western countries a KJV), charging you to consider it as the unerring standard of truth and to regulate you actions by the Divine precepts that it contains".
If Freemasonry was anti Christianity, why does the first degree ritual encourage Christians to seek out their Bible and the Divine Precepts that it contains?
Freemasonry is not a religious order but a Fraternity that refers people back to their own religion. Much like the parliment, it has a Bible and a Prayer which are symbolic.
What is the difference between some of anti masonic movements and Gnosticsm? Not alot.
Both teach that Christians can be cursed and that specific mantras or prayers are required in order to "break" these things. Yet Jesus says in John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be Free Indeed".
Jesus set us free from all curses. Jesus finished it all on the Cross when His blood paid for it all. When we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour, All curses are broken forever. Yet go and have a look at some of the anti masonic sites and they are full of the Gnostic teachings that Christians that are in Freemasonry are under Curses and there families are under the control of generational curses etc etc.
Throughout the history of the church, the church leadership has had to speak out against Gnostiscm as it infiltrates the churches. I encourage you to consider if when a person is born again, if the Blood of Jesus is enough to redeem that person? Or if additional things are needed to set people free? Jesus Himself said in John 10:10 "I have come that they might have life and have it more abundantly". Not only has Jesus set us free from ALL spiritual bondage, but he has given us more abundant life than what we had before.
I have no doubt that people will be able to find stones to throw at Freemasons. Any organisation that large is going to have problems. Yet do not be drawn into Gnosticm. That is a false gospel that leads people into fear, guilt and self condemnation. All you need is found in Jesus. What He did on the cross will set you free for all eternity if you ask Him for it.
F
frewtloop
Guest
I have a friend who is a Mason, and he tells me it is all based on the Bible. There are a lot of people who misunderstand it, and want to attack it like they do a lot of groups who are "different." He tells me they divide the day into three parts, one for serving God, one for work, and one for rest. There is another website with even more detail about the accusations, and explanations of why so many things are understood about this group, it is www.masonicinfo.com
At a time when I thought I had a lot of friends, I was in an accident and spent several days in the hospital. The only person who came to see me the whole time was this friend who is a Mason. I was immediately reminded of the verse, "I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me" (Matthew 25:36). Mine was a little different, more like "I was sick and you visited me." It was a small thing, but it meant a lot at the time.
I just think people are too quick to throw rocks at groups they don't understand, and all too often only on the basis of what they've been told by somebody else. I have found with a lot of groups called "cults" or even worse, the real picture is never as bad as the one people paint.
My wife was a member of an independent Baptist church where several deacons were Masons, or so I heard. Her father deserted her family and ran off with another woman, and her mother had a hard time raising the four children she still had at home (of six). If it had not been for those deacons, my wife says, they would never have managed. But every Sunday when they went to church, one or more of them would come over to greet her mother, and when they shook her hand, they would slip her some money unnoticed by anybody else. When her car died, a nice used car was bought and given to her, no strings attached. The only thing that was asked of her was that she tell no one.
I just have a hard time speaking evil of people who will take care of people that way.
That simply is not true. My friend tells me that the only thing he can think of that even resembles that idea is, that while the lodge is in open session, no one discusses religion or politics. He also says that a lot of people get the idea that "the name of Jesus is forbidden by the lodge," when actually any name for God is not to be used while in session, but only so that harmony rules. But in his lodge, as I understand it, there are only Christians, and when they have prayers that are free-form and not written out like in a ritual or something, just about everybody ends their prayers "in Jesus' name." I think there's a lot of misinformation on stuff like this.
F
frewtloop
Guest
Claudia_T,
On the perfect issue, you are right in what the Word tells us, the word is very common, particularly in the King James. Other versions seem to have moved away from it, perhaps to avoid controversy or misunderstanding. The main problem as I see it with this word, it was not so strong in meaning as it has become since the time the KJV used it. We have the idea now of perfection as absolute, with no detectable hint of imperfection whatsoever. But it was never intended that way in the biblical sense. The best explanation I think I heard of it, is it refers to a perfection of motive. We will not always get it right, but I believe we can reach a point where we always desire the right. At least it makes more sense to me that way.
As far as having to do with anything masonry teaches, I'm not so sure. I mean, I've always heard the expression that they aim to "make men better," but I've never seen anywhere that they claimed to make anybody "perfect."
TW
On the perfect issue, you are right in what the Word tells us, the word is very common, particularly in the King James. Other versions seem to have moved away from it, perhaps to avoid controversy or misunderstanding. The main problem as I see it with this word, it was not so strong in meaning as it has become since the time the KJV used it. We have the idea now of perfection as absolute, with no detectable hint of imperfection whatsoever. But it was never intended that way in the biblical sense. The best explanation I think I heard of it, is it refers to a perfection of motive. We will not always get it right, but I believe we can reach a point where we always desire the right. At least it makes more sense to me that way.
As far as having to do with anything masonry teaches, I'm not so sure. I mean, I've always heard the expression that they aim to "make men better," but I've never seen anywhere that they claimed to make anybody "perfect."
TW
Marcia
Active Member
There is tons of information on Freemasonry to show it is not compatible with Christianity. Why would ex-Masons for Jesus exist? These are all ex-Masons who are concerned and burdened for people in Masonry because they know what it teaches.
Individual Christian Masons may think it's okay because they are in a lodge where everyone is a Christian. This is a deceptive situation. And I know there are Masons who are wonderful, kind people, but that's not the issue (I know some very kind New Agers and very nice Wiccans who would give you the shirt off their backs).
We have to examine the teachings and follow what God says -- examine everything in the light of God's word. Freemasonry teaches that there are many ways to God, not just Christ. In lodges in Islamic countries, they have the Koran there; in Buddhist countries, they have Buddhist texts. These are just the facts. I have a book on Freemasonry from England and some books from a woman who had been in the co-mason orders. They teach works to get into heaven. It's subtle but it's there.
Besides, in the very first degree, you say that you are coming out of darkness into the light of Masonry (that's a paraphrase). How can a believer in Christ say they are in darkness, and that the light they need is from Freemasonry? It's an organization that says it's not a religion yet they teach spiritual things that conflict with the Bible.
Individual Christian Masons may think it's okay because they are in a lodge where everyone is a Christian. This is a deceptive situation. And I know there are Masons who are wonderful, kind people, but that's not the issue (I know some very kind New Agers and very nice Wiccans who would give you the shirt off their backs).
We have to examine the teachings and follow what God says -- examine everything in the light of God's word. Freemasonry teaches that there are many ways to God, not just Christ. In lodges in Islamic countries, they have the Koran there; in Buddhist countries, they have Buddhist texts. These are just the facts. I have a book on Freemasonry from England and some books from a woman who had been in the co-mason orders. They teach works to get into heaven. It's subtle but it's there.
Besides, in the very first degree, you say that you are coming out of darkness into the light of Masonry (that's a paraphrase). How can a believer in Christ say they are in darkness, and that the light they need is from Freemasonry? It's an organization that says it's not a religion yet they teach spiritual things that conflict with the Bible.
F
frewtloop
Guest
eladar,
Which "argument" was that?
F
frewtloop
Guest
They encourage each other to do good to others at all opportunities, but every Christian Mason I've met so far has told me they were Christians before they ever joined the lodge. Sort of defeats "works salvation"--why would somebody be trying to earn what they've already got?
I can't speak for all, and I understand there can be differences depending on location, but the only ritual I am familiar with, while it has the phrase you mention, does not contain the phrase "of Masonry" at all. And it is clear from everything that is said, that the light being sought is the light of God. Besides, the first 3 degrees are symbolic of the 3 stages of life: birth, the productive years, and death. So for someone who has "already come to the light," it need not present a problem, as that person will simply understand it to portray a part of the panorama of life, one in which he has already taken part.
I think the above comment pretty well explains this, but even so, would you say that as Christians, we have no need of further light? If so, IMO, you go against what the Scriptures themselves teach.
It would be helpful if you could come up with at least one example.
TW
F
frewtloop
Guest
Actually, I thought it was that he actually did what Jesus says to do.
TW
F
frewtloop
Guest
Well, I've visited them a time or two, and the only thing they seem to be "concerned" about over there are tossing out insults and put-downs to see who can one-up the other guy. And with several million Masons worldwide, if the ex-masons stand for God as they claim, why don't they act more Christian, and why aren't they more effective (actually, I think the first part of that question sort of answers the second).
TW