Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[savedbymercy]

Freewill ism, and Legalism and all other ism's is men worshiping themselves, having confidence in their flesh [ Jer 17:5;Phil 3:3], their ability, their decisions, their prudence or wisdom or good behaviour, their freewill. Folks if we have the least degree of confidence in ourselves in this matter of Justification before God, we are lost, and nothing but a Divine Supernatural Intervention of God's Grace can save us. The religion of the beast, no matter what denomination or religious organization will always without fail be manifested to the True Child of Grace, because it will always have a exalted view of man and resting Salvation or Justification before God on what man decides to do. 2 Thess 2:4

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. By insisting that Salvation depends on my will finally instead of God's will.

When a person thinks like that, that Justification and Salvation depends finally on them, what they do, then they usurp the prerogative of God, who alone made the decision within His Eternal Decree and for His own Glory, who is Saved.

2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[quantumfaith]

So when scripture challenges us to "Choose you this day who you will serve", then scripture is leading us into error and into worshiping ourselves?

 

[padredurand]

Freewill ism, and Legalism and all other ism's is men worshiping themselves, having confidence in their flesh [ Jer 17:5;Phil 3:3], their ability, their decisions, their prudence or wisdom or good behaviour, their freewill. Folks if we have the least degree of confidence in ourselves in this matter of Justification before God, we are lost, and nothing but a Divine Supernatural Intervention of God's Grace can save us. The religion of the beast, no matter what denomination or religious organization will always without fail be manifested to the True Child of Grace, because it will always have a exalted view of man and resting Salvation or Justification before God on what man decides to do. 2 Thess 2:4

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. By insisting that Salvation depends on my will finally instead of God's will.

When a person thinks like that, that Justification and Salvation depends finally on them, what they do, then they usurp the prerogative of God, who alone made the decision within His Eternal Decree and for His own Glory, who is Saved.

2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Is it then your definition of free will as any action, function, thought or deed of man in association with his redemption and the truely redeemed have not one breath of participation in the same Divine work? You stated earlier that even faith is a work of man even if that very faith flows from the throne. How then shall anyone call upon the name of the Lord and be saved? How can man respond to the leading of the Holy Spirit? How can man even know he is among the Elect if he is absent from the entire process of being born again?

John Wesley is probably the most eminent among those who speak of man's freewill. You describe freewill as something outside of the power of God to influence. Wesley taught that the freewill of man indeed flows from the power and sovereignty of God.

First. It is free in all to whom it is given. It does not depend on any power or merit in man; no, not in any degree, neither in whole, nor in part. It does not in anywise depend either on the good works or righteousness of the receiver; not on anything he has done, or anything he is. It does not depend on his endeavors. It does not depend on his good tempers, or good desires, or good purposes and intentions; for all these flow from the free grace of God; they are the streams only, not the fountain. They are the fruits of free grace, and not the root. They are not the cause, but the effects of it. Whatsoever good is in man, or is done by man, God is the author and doer of it. Thus is his grace free in all; that is, no way depending on any power or merit in man, but on God alone, who freely gave us his own Son, and "with him freely giveth us all things. Free Grace Sermon 128 ~John Wesley

 

[savedbymercy]

pad:

You stated earlier that even faith is a work of man even if that very faith flows from the throne.

God given Faith is a Gift from God so that one can receive the knowledge and assurance of their free Salvation or Justification by Grace. But when men take that and condition Justification before God because of it, because of their believing, then that changes Faith or believing into a work we did in order to be made Just with God.

Just remember, whenever anything a man does is taken in for consideration as to be the basis or even co basis of Justification before God, turns into a work of man and cancels out Grace.

So Paul says Rom 11:6

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The word works here is the greek word ergon and it means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So Believing is an act of the mind, we believe because its a commandment 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Its an imperative Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

So its a work. If one basis their Justification before God on believing, an act of the mind, though it be a renewed mind, its still a work of man according to the definition of work that I just shared.

 

[padredurand]

pad:



God given Faith is a Gift from God so that one can receive the knowledge and assurance of their free Salvation or Justification by Grace. But when men take that and condition Justification before God because of it, because of their believing, then that changes Faith or believing into a work we did in order to be made Just with God.

Just remember, whenever anything a man does is taken in for consideration as to be the basis or even co basis of Justification before God, turns into a work of man and cancels out Grace.

So Paul says Rom 11:6

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The word works here is the greek word ergon and it means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So Believing is an act of the mind, we believe because its a commandment 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Its an imperative Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

So its a work. If one basis their Justification before God on believing, an act of the mind, though it be a renewed mind, its still a work of man according to the definition of work that I just shared.

But faith is a work of the heart and not the mind.

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1 NAS77


Matthew Henry’s commentary on this passage is excellent. Let me distill it to the highlights:

1. It is the substance of things hoped for. Faith and hope go together; and the same things that are the object of our hope are the object of our faith. It is a firm persuasion and expectation that God will perform all that he has promised to us in Christ.



2. It is the evidence of things not seen. Faith demonstrates to the eye of the mind the reality of those things that cannot be discerned by the eye of the body. Faith is the firm assent of the soul to the divine revelation and every part of it, and sets to its seal that God is true.
​

A mind persuaded in one direction can be quickly persuaded in another direction. Faith is to the spirit what the sense of sight is to the body. As Wesley said, " They are the fruits of free grace, and not the root. They are not the cause, but the effects of it. Whatsoever good is in man, or is done by man, God is the author and doer of it. Thus is his grace free in all; that is, no way depending on any power or merit in man, but on God alone, who freely gave us his own Son, and "with him freely giveth us all things." In all things, I believe, extends to a cognative realization of the power of Grace and the quickening of the heart.

For through the grace given to me I say to every man among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
Romans 12:3 NAS77

To exercise freewill is to experience the fullest outpouring of Grace. It is not man's contribution to salvation. We have nothing to offer beyond what God has placed within the heart. To exercise faith through the action of will is an effect of Grace and not a cause. The act of will is a response to Grace and not a catalyst to bring it to fruition. That's why Paul admonished, "...I say to every man among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think..."

 

[Dr. Walter]

The human will is free within the boundaries of the human nature just as God's will is free within the boundaries of the Divine nature. The "power" of contrary choice was lost in the fall as before the fall man's nature possessed "power" of contrary choice.

However, since the fall, the will of man is a bondslave to the fallen nature and it is at "enmity with God and it is not subject to the law of God and neither indeed CAN be." The words "neither indeed CAN be" deny present "power" of contrary choice in fallen man.

As Luther taught in his book the "Bondage of the will" the fallen human will is simply a servant of the depraved heart and mind. The human will never acts independent of the depraved heart (desires) or mind (thoughts) and never chooses to glorify God at the expense of self-interest.

The two words used for the will are words by their very nature define the act of the will to be either guided by feelings or intellect as the will has no indepedency apart from the heart and mind of man both of which are in bondage to sin and at enmity with God.

The new birth is in part the provision of a NEW HEART and NEW SPIRIT providing a NEW dispostion toward righteousness and thus ability to choose to glorify God and obey God instead of choosing to be at enmity with God and not subject to the law of God.

There is no such man as a regenerated unbeliever or an unregenerated believer. Another aspect of the new birth is CHANGE from love of sin to love of righteousness from unbelief to beleif as the New Birth is that change wrought by God in His elect.

 

[DHK]

pad:
God given Faith is a Gift from God so that one can receive the knowledge and assurance of their free Salvation or Justification by Grace. But when men take that and condition Justification before God because of it, because of their believing, then that changes Faith or believing into a work we did in order to be made Just with God.

A Calvinistic supposition that can't be backed up with Scripture.
When you tell a lie long enough, often enough, people will you believe whether it is true or not.
Where in the Bible does God say that he gives faith (or spiritual gifts/the fruit of the Holy Spirit) to the unregenerate? Faith is not a gift from God, and Scripture never says it is, in reference to the unsaved.

To many of those that followed Christ, and were healed of him he always said: "Thy faith hath made thee whole."

 

[webdog]

All "ism's" are men worshipping themselves? Guess that would include calvinISM, right?

 

[davidoregonJr]

All "ism's" are men worshipping themselves? Guess that would include calvinISM, right?

*Baptisms*

You people sure do make a whole lot of incorrect(false)statements.

Good thing for you that the Lord sent me to call your attention to some of them. And correct you.

The Lord bless you a 1000 times more as much as you have in your life now.
amen

 

[DHK]

Freewill ism, and Legalism and all other ism's is men worshiping themselves, having confidence in their flesh [ Jer 17:5;Phil 3:3], their ability, their decisions, their prudence or wisdom or good behaviour, their freewill. Folks if we have the least degree of confidence in ourselves in this matter of Justification before God, we are lost, and nothing but a Divine Supernatural Intervention of God's Grace can save us.

And half truths only deceive.
What is the meaning of this Scripture?

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Romans 5:1)

 

[DHK]

*Baptisms*

You people sure do make a whole lot of incorrect(false)statements.

Good thing for you that the Lord sent me to call your attention to some of them. And correct you.

The Lord bless you a 1000 times more as much as you have in your life now.
amen

The Lord put Moses in the palace of Egypt for 40 years, and there Moses learned. Then the Lord sent him into the wilderness for his second "semester" of learning, another 40 years. Finally, when Moses was 80 years old, he was ready, both spiritually and mentally to lead Israel; to teach Israel.
Perhaps you should wait until you are 80 years old before you post again, before you try and teach others. Learn something from the Word of God first. You certainly aren't in any place to correct others. And it wasn't the Lord that sent you here.

Mark this and mark it well. The Lord did not send you here. The Baptist Board allowed you here. They, right now, are giving you the privilege to post here. If you do not abide by their rules you will suffer the consequences, as you have already been warned.

 

[savedbymercy]

pad

But faith is a work of the heart and not the mind.

They are basically the same. The word heart as in Rom 10:9

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This is the word kardia and means:

the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

Plus you are missing the whole point. Faith or believing is an act of man. If one is Justified before God by an act of their believing, whether you want to argue if the act is from the heart or the mind, it ends up still an act of man is the final determiner of Justification before God, and not Jesus Christ blood alone.

 

[savedbymercy]

Freewill religion or the Man of sin religion will as stated earlier will always have a Pretentious view of Man !

This is True, because even though scripture, God's word declares man in a helpless lost condition, dead in sin, and only evil continually, without the ability to do good, yet men boast of their freewill which denies our total depravity and inability.

The scripture says none doeth good, no not one Ps 14:3

They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is repeated in Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is describing all mankind as being born sinners by nature.

Scripture says here that man is filthy by nature, unprofitable , useless or unserviceable.

That word filthy in Ps 14:3 means became morally corrupt. All men by nature are born helplessly morally corrupt, even our religious efforts in that state are corrupt and as filthy stinking rags before God Isa 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

But you know, man by nature cannot and will not submit to this Divine Declaration.

None says the Divine Verdict of fallen man, doeth good. None is exempt ! God is saying, there is absolutely none that acts rightly or that does well.

The WNT
All have turned aside from the right path; they have every one of them become corrupt. There is no one who does what is right--no, not so much as one."

And so because the freewill religion or the man of sin religion does not accept what God says [about mankind] in His word, The Man of sin opposeth what God says:

2 Thess 2:4

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This word opposeth is the greek word antikeimai

to be set over against, opposite to

2) to oppose, be adverse to, withstand


It means to be contrary, withstand the Truth in God's Temple, in the Church, or what supposes to be the Church, the pillar and ground of Truth.

Whenever we oppose God's Truth, we are in fact exalting ourselves over God !

Freewill religion or philosophy is contrary to sound doctrine ! 1 Tim 1:10

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

You see, man's freewill in the matter of Salvation and Justification
before God is contrary to and opposes sound doctrine of the scripture.

So man of sin religion has a pretentious view of man !

 

[Dr. Walter]

AGain, I never ever wrote this letter and every last word in it are filthy lies. It seems that when persons cannot meet me on a level playing field they stoop to attack and smear my character.

I do not know who wrote this letter. I can only imagine their intent is to destroy my character by these filfhy disgusting lies.


[deleted.]

 

[savedbymercy]

So we see that the Man of Sin Religion That Man has a freewill in this Matter of Salvation has a Pretentious view of Man ! Man denies his total inability in Spiritual matters, denies that he is dead to God.

Next, this Freewill or Man of sin religion has a Degrading view of God !

The Natural religions of men think of God as liken to themselves Ps 50:21

21These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

One of the main comments the man of sin religion makes in his defense of freewill, but man is made in the Image and Likeness of God, and since God has Freewill, surely we men must have freewill to do as we please since God does and we are in His Image !

Being made in the Image and Likeness of God has nothing to do with being given the Divine Prerogatives that God Alone has, men are God's creatures, and made lower than the Angels, and these Holy Creatures [The Ones who did not sin] can not but blush and be astonished at the thinking of sinful men.

The freewillers denies and opposes God's Sovereignty, oh sure with lip service they will acknowledge that God is Sovereign, but not over all things. In many things they believe God's will is subservient to the will of men. They will deny that ultimately the person is saved or delivered from this evil world by the will of God as per Gal 1:4

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

And instead, they proclaim, this deliverance cannot occur unless man's will gives God consent !

They do not come right out and deny the Death of Christ and the accomplishments of His blood, but they limit its efficaciousness to finally be decided by the mighty freewill of Man !

They deny the work of the Holy Spirit as being the effectual applier of the Life that proceeds from the risen Christ to all for whom He died, and proclaim that ultimately the freewill of man decides who has Spiritual life applied to them, for this is degrading to the Work of the Spirit. It is the work of the Spirit of God Paul writes to bring one unto belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Faith or believing the Gospel [The word of Truth [Eph 1:13] is the result or fruit of the Sanctifying work of the Spirit, and not the freewill of man. !

So this man of sin religion, the religion of freewill sovereignty, has a degrading view of Almighty God, the Triune God whom Alone should receive the Glory for the Salvation of a Man..

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I have received various reports about this thread. I am pleased that savedbymercy is stating his position without being rude and demeaning. Not everyone agrees with the positions stated*, but that's the purpose of this forum - to debate doctrine and beliefs. As long as it is debated civilly and respectfully, it is allowed.

Instead of complaining about someone else's belief, get your Bible out and refute what you see as error. Let the Word of God speak for Itself.
Romans 3:4 ...let God be true, but every man a liar; (KJV)



*I, personally, disagree with the OP, but he has every right to state his position in a proper manner.

 

[webdog]

I have received various reports about this thread. I am pleased that savedbymercy is stating his position without being rude and demeaning. Not everyone agrees with the positions stated*, but that's the purpose of this forum - to debate doctrine and beliefs. As long as it is debated civilly and respectfully, it is allowed.

Instead of complaining about someone else's belief, get your Bible out and refute what you see as error. Let the Word of God speak for Itself.
Romans 3:4 ...let God be true, but every man a liar; (KJV)



*I, personally, disagree with the OP, but he has every right to state his position in a proper manner.

So we are allowed to say that anyone who holds to free will is an antichrist?!? I guarantee if I stated something along the lines of the OP (that everyone who doesn't hold to free will is the antichrist) I would be gone. It makes no difference if it is done civilly, and it for certain is NOT respecful...I was under the impression it was forum rules to not question the salvation of other posters, what has been done repeatedly in this thread. The fact you have received numerous reports should be taken into consideration that forum rules have been violated.

We are now allowed to "properly" question the salvation of others

 

[Pastor_Bob]

So we are allowed to say that anyone who holds to free will is an antichrist?!? I guarantee if I stated something along the lines of the OP (that everyone who doesn't hold to free will is the antichrist) I would be gone.

There is a huge difference in stating one's opinion that a doctrine is "antichrist" and saying that those who hold to it are "the Antichrist." There has been no name-calling in this thread, at least not by the one who started the thread.

It makes no difference if it is done civilly, and it for certain is NOT respecful...

Since when is it not respectful to voice your opinions on a public debate forum?

I was under the impression it was forum rules to not question the salvation of other posters, what has been done repeatedly in this thread.

I disagree. I didn't not see any of that going on. In fact, a moderator has been involved in the discussion since page #1, and he hasn't seen it either.

The fact you have received numerous reports should be taken into consideration that forum rules have been violated.

I did not say "numerous;" that is your word. I said "various" which means that they were not all the same complaint. The mere reporting of a post and/or thread does not means that a rule has been violated; and, I assure you that they are all taken into consideration.

 

[DHK]

So we see that the Man of Sin Religion That Man has a freewill in this Matter of Salvation has a Pretentious view of Man ! Man denies his total inability in Spiritual matters, denies that he is dead to God.

Let's examine your postion.
"he is dead to God."
What does that mean?
What does it mean to be dead to God?
What does the word "dead" mean, in a scriptural sense. Define it and then back it up with Scripture.

Next, this Freewill or Man of sin religion has a Degrading view of God !

Is this your view or that of the OP? If yours, how is it degrading?
Do you have a free will, in any sense of the word?
Did you have breakfast today? Was it God's decision or yours? Did God force you to make that decision or did you do it on your own. Did you not have the free will to make that decision on your own? Thus you do have free will don't you?

The Natural religions of men think of God as liken to themselves Ps 50:21

Some of them do. All Scripture has to be taken in its context, including statements made by David or the Psalmist. I don't think the Muslim thinks of Allah as like himself. To them it would be blasphemous to do so. Sweeping generalizations are an logical fallacy--that is--illogical.

21These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

Again, what is the context? Who is "I will reprove thee"? If you don't know the context how can you dogmatically or authoritatively use the verse to prove your point. You cannot.

One of the main comments the man of sin religion makes in his defense of freewill, but man is made in the Image and Likeness of God, and since God has Freewill, surely we men must have freewill to do as we please since God does and we are in His Image !

The man of sin is the Antichrist--a definite person, who in the future will manifest himself at the beginning of the Tribulation. He has nothing to do with those who believe in free will. So even the title of this thread is misleading. The man of sin (if you want a true comparison) is more like a Calvinist who demands all to worship him like God, a sovereign God, demanding all to bow down and worship him. He will not allow any free will but will require all to to take the mark of the beast. They, like all good Calvinists, will worship him, and him alone. If anything your analogy backfires on yourself.

 

[webdog]

There is a huge difference in stating one's opinion that a doctrine is "antichrist" and saying that those who hold to it are "the Antichrist." There has been no name-calling in this thread, at least not by the one who started the thread.

Not much difference at all as defined...

1: one who denies or opposes Christ; specifically : a great antagonist expected to fill the world with wickedness but to be conquered forever by Christ at his second coming
2
: a false Christ

Savedby mercy believes I deny or oppose Christ, serve a false Christ and will be conquered by Christ at His coming. If that is not questioning the salvation of others not sure what else could be.

Since when is it not respectful to voice your opinions on a public debate forum?

...when that opinion goes over the line as viewed on this very thread

I disagree. I didn't not see any of that going on. In fact, a moderator has been involved in the discussion since page #1, and he hasn't seen it either.

How do you know what he has seen?

I did not say "numerous;" that is your word. I said "various" which means that they were not all the same complaint. The mere reporting of a post and/or thread does not means that a rule has been violated; and, I assure you that they are all taken into consideration.

Semantics.