from free-will to sovereign grace... a bad thing?

Cadiz is about an hour's drive down I-24. Been there many times. My take is, if one wishes to extend an invitation or altar call, fine. One must carefully guard against mainpulation--doing or saying anything in order to get some kind of response. I've often said that the best way to do it is to exhort people to repent and believe, and then just shut up. Shut off the music and the singing and just wait.

 

"The time had now arrived for an address to the unconverted. At the suggestion of Mr. Spurgeon, three minutes were spent in silence by believers in pleadings for their fellow sinners, and that Mr. Offord might be aided to bear God’s message to them, as directly as he had been enabled to lay their confessions before God. In answer to prayer, our beloved brother was enabled to set forth the glories of heaven in a most delightful manner, so that many who had been hitherto careless, felt a desire after that goodly land; then came the warning that no defiling thing can enter there, and the simple, earnest, instructive, and touching story of the way by which the sinner may be cleansed from all defilement and made to stand accepted in the Beloved. Every word was clothed with power, we all felt that the speaker’s lips had been touched with a living altar-coal, and we sat wondering at the power of God, and expecting great results.

All the Christians present expressed their hearty desire that their fellowmen might receive God’s mercy in Christ, by singing certain verses each ending with the words, “Come and welcome sinner come.” These words could not but fall with thrilling power upon many hearts.

The earnest work of supplication was ended by Pastors Stott and C. H. Spurgeon pleading with God for anxious and careless souls present. Each plea seemed to go straight to the throne of grace, while numbers felt that such prayer must be and was accepted. These prayers, like all the others, as well as the confession, were evidently the result of a resistless power, moving the hearts of speakers and hearers, animating them with deep and earnest desire, and working in them a simple and mighty faith, that must surely prevail with him who said. “According to thy faith be it unto thee,” and, “all things are possible to him that believeth.” This is the Lord’s doing and it is marvelous in our eyes Who shall tell what blessing may grow out of this wonderful display of the grace of our God! May he grant us to see yet greater things than these!

After an announcement that another central meeting will be held on the first Monday in February, a number of Christians retired into a room below with many anxious ones, several of whom received peace with God through faith in the precious Savior. Many of these have since been seen by Mr. Spurgeon, who tells us that he conversed personally with no less than seventy-five inquirers, in one day subsequent to the meeting. We hope “The Sword and Trowel” will chronicle many blessed items of saving results." ---Sword & Trowel, 1865.



"Mr. Marshall and Mr. Barnard presented the incense of praise. Mr. Spurgeon then gave out the hymn, commencing with —

"Just as I am, Without one plea.":thumbs:

This was a prelude to confession of sin, which, after a silent confession of two or three minutes of each for himself, was offered in the name of all by Mr. Clark. Some verses of the hymn, "I will praise Thee every day," were then sung, after which petitions for the revival of the Churches were presented by Mr. Warren and Mr. Offord: those of the latter were preceded by a touching and powerful appeal to the hearts of believers.

Now came the direct reference to the unsaved. This was introduced by a most earnest and awakening address by Mr. Spurgeon, and was responded to in prayer by Mr. Stott and Mr. Varley. A hymn followed, commencing thus,

"Once a sinner near despair."

Mr. Teal and Mr. Burton then prayed, and Mr. Spurgeon closed with prayer. INQUIRERS were then encouraged to retire to the lecture hall, where ministers and elders would be glad to converse with them; and many responded to the invitation." ---Sword & Trowel, 1865



"But if we were to leave untouched everything that is capable of abuse, and to disallow practices which rightly conducted tend to good, simply because some have gone in for too much of that good thing, we should unnecessarily deprive ourselves of much that is lawful and should curtail our efforts in the prosecution of the King's business. Many a time it has been my joy to see the nail which was driven home by the sermon clinched by the after talk" ---Sword & Trowel, 1882



"Listen, then, each of you here present, who have only one thing that you lack. Will you now — may his holy Spirit make you — give up the world and all its fair prospects, give up sin and all its fascinations, give up your fleshly self, with all its peculiar inclinations, and close in with God in Christ, and give your whole heart to him? Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! There is a valley of decision to us all, when we are either left to our own wills and decide for evil, or led by the grace of God to decide for Christ. The cry is heard in this house to-night, "Divide, divide." Those who shall say "aye" within their hearts take their place with Christ; but those who are of the "noes" — those who give the negative to the command of Christ — let them, at least, know what they are doing; and if they will go the downward road, let it be with their eyes open, fully aware where they go. But, oh! say not "No !" Oh ! Spirit of God, let them not say " No!" Yield thee, man, yield to the gentle impulse which now bids thee say, "I will take his yoke upon me, for it is easy; I will follow him." Yield to his love who round you now the hands of a man would cast — the cords of his love who was given for you, to his altar binding you fast. Pray this prayer: "Lord, bind the sacrifice with cords, even with cords to the horns of the altar ; let me be thine now, and thine hereafter when thou comest in thy glory!""
---Charles Spurgeon, "Lovely But Lacking"



"God is gently drawing some of you this morning; I can feel that he is doing so. I have deep sympathy with you; I know how you are feeling, you want to get alone, and fall down on your knees to pray. Pray now! Cry, "God be merciful to me a sinner," in the pew, at once. You do not need to wait to get home. May God the Holy Spirit lead you to yield your heart to Jesus Christ at this very time, for, if not, there will surely come one of these days a last time in which you will feel, and you will after that be given up to a conscience seared as with a hot iron, never to feel again." ---C. H. Spurgeon, "To-day! To-day! To-day!"



"There are some of you standing in these aisles and sitting in these pews, who I feel in my soul will never have another invitation, and if this be rejected to-day, I feel a solemn motion in my soul—I think it is of the Holy Ghost—that you will never hear another faithful sermon, but you shall go down to hell impenitent, unsaved, except ye trust in Jesus now. I speak not as a man, but I speak as God's ambassador to your souls, and I command you, in God's name, trust Jesus, trust now. At your peril reject the voice that speaks from heaven, for "he that believeth not shall be damned." How shall ye escape if ye neglect so great salvation. When it comes right home to you, when it thrusts itself in your way, oh, if ye will neglect it how can ye escape? With tears I would invite you, and, if I could, would compel yon to come in. Why will ye not ? 0 souls, if ye will be damned, if ye make up your mind that no mercy shall ever woo you, and no warnings shall ever move you, then, sirs, what chains of vengeance must you feel that slight these bonds of love. You have deserved the deepest hell, for you slight the joys above. God save you. He will save you, if you trust in Jesus. God help you to trust him even now, for Jesus' sake. Amen." ---C. H. Spurgeon, "Good News for You"

 

Jerome, thanks for the Spurgeon quotes.

They are good examples to follow in exhorting the lost to repentance. The man knows how to call men and women to Christ.

 

I'm not a Calvinist, but I would not have a problem working with a pastor who is . . . as long as his passion was to see people won to Christ, not Calvinism.

I think the single biggest complaint we (non-Calvinist) have with our Calvinist brothers is that some of them really love to argue and try to "convert" the already converted (Christians) to the "doctrines of grace."

Just preach Christ crucified and love your people.

I'm just naive enough to think there's room in the Baptist denomination for those with different views on this.

Kevin
http://kuyakevin.com

 

I am a calvinist, and I assure you I preach as fervent a gospel as any man in the pulpit. It is one thing to establish consistent and orderly doctrines for the faith that is in us, and quite another when it comes to fervent preaching for those in the pews.

All the calvinists I know and studied with are as evangelical as anyone. We do everything a human can do to reach the lost. We don't know who are the elect of God. All we know is go you into ALL the world and preach the gospel. That is the only commission I have,

In here you will hear arguments of doctrine, and that is fine. It is the place to sort out our theologies. Hopefully we are dealing with the saved, and we can all learn from each other.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Preach on, brother Jim Blessings to you!

 

Just preach Christ, crucified, resurrected, King, coming Judge of the living and the dead.
Just preach man fallen, sinful, helpless, vile, recipients of mercy and not instigators of it.
Just preach God sovereign, holy, lofty, and righteous, accountable to no one but all accountable to Him.

You won't even need to mention the word election and the phrase "from before the foundation of the world".

They in your congregation with the same Spirit will agree, and understand, God chooses, not man, and God chose before man ever was, and all He has chosen, He has redeemed in Christ. Finished. Done. Complete.

 

Fixed your paragraph to make it correct....

 

As a non cal I can say their difference here is not cal verses non but mature verses immature at best.

 

Exactly Mitch. A new Christian is not going to be as articulate. I fit Tom's label "non-cal Southern Baptist" and yet the contrasting description would be what I would say. "I got saved" just doesn't cut it anymore. But, I've matured and grown in my faith and knowledge. My relationship with Jesus has grown. I have a greater knowledge of God's Word...

 

Your welcome
Keep on preaching and inviting! I've been in your shoes once in your understanding of the mechanics involved in salvation.

 

I would disagree in that In Eph. 2:8, 9 states we are saved and being saved (perfect ptc.) through faith. Salvation is a gift of God. Christ is our salvation. He is the gift of salvation. Salvation is in Christ alone not God's grace plus Christ. There is salvation in none other than Christ.

 

It doesn't teach that faith is a gift. That simply isn't the issue that Paul is addressing there. I can quote a number of Greek grammars that explain the construction, incliding Wallace's (a Calvinist) Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.

However, faith is a gift of God, insomuch as it is the result of God's work through the Holy Spirit. So that is not the issue. Irresisiblity is the issue.

 

There's a lot of it in the NT, especially in Luke-Acts. What one makes of it will depend upon one's theological disposition. However, to say it is unbilical practice practice is simply false.

It never happens in my church. Of course, I live in the Northern US, so not much ever happens.

 

I think you missed my point of salvation is a gift but you are not saved by grace but through faith in Jesus Christ. The gift is Christ. I agree with Wallace on pages 167 and 168. "Grace is the cause of our salvation and (through faith expresses the means)."

On pages 334 and 335, Wallace goes into more detail about the issue. On page 335 he supports grace-by-faith salvation and that neither grace nor faith are the antecedents to touto.

Grace is not the agency of salvation. Christ is. Eph. 2:1-5 supports this.

Scripture teaches that salvation is in Jesus Christ it is not in God's grace that salvation is secure. God's grace extends far more than just salvation.

The only verse I could find that would be closest to salvation in grace would be in Acts 15:11, "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." It clearly states that we are saved through the grace of Jesus.

One of the things I like about Wallace is that I may not always agree with him but he does his best to be honest with the text in making decisions. There are times he claims the text does not teach and cannot be decided by the grammar that does not support what others teach. I think pastors would do well in following his example. I have an even greater appreciation for him because a friend of mine had him for Greek before he wrote the book. From the comments my friend made from the classes he had with him I find him to be an honest and honorable man.

 

When I was a kid in the Pacific Northwest it was much the same way then, but it is much different now.

 

Ok, I think I understand what you are saying. I'll have to look at your phraseology elsewhere/in the future to make sure.

 

In my opinion, the problem here is that some think faith and grace are magical, supernatural entities. I believe both faith and grace are very oridinary things.

I have heard that grace is the opposite of mercy. Grace is God giving you something you do not deserve, while mercy is God not giving you something you do deserve.

We are sinners, we deserve death. But God shows us mercy.

We are sinners, we do not deserve everlasting life. But God gives us grace.

Faith simply means to believe on, trust upon, rely upon, look to, lean upon, depend upon, you get the idea. You exercise faith everyday when you drive your car. You believe your brakes will safely stop you when you apply them. If you do not trust your brakes, there is no way you are going to drive (at least I would not). Faith is an attitude or conviction. A belief.

It is Jesus that saves us. Jesus gives us everlasting life if we come to him according to the scriptures, realizing we are lost sinners and that he paid our sins on the cross, died, was buried, and rose from the dead.

To have faith in Jesus means you cease from relying on anything you can do yourself to save yourself and depend upon Jesus only. It is not some magical thing, but it is a deep conviction of the heart. You must come to Jesus in a very real and personal way. You must cast yourself upon him and depend upon him to save you. When you do, he literally comes into you via the Holy Spirit. Now, when the Holy Spirit comes into you, that IS a supernatural act from God. But you must receive the Holy Spirit of your own free will, God does not force himself upon anyone. But Jesus has promised anyone who applies to him for forgiveness of sins and everlasting life will receive it.

You obtain faith by hearing and believeing God's Word. Not just hearing, you must sincerely believe.

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith is a gift in the respect that you could not believe God's Word unless God provided His Word to you. This is why it can never be of man or of the will of man. Only God can provide his word. And his words are spirit and life. This is supernatural.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

When you receive Christ, you receive his word into your heart, you receive the Holy Spirit, you receive everlasting life.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Grace is simply describing that it is an unearned gift. Mercy is showing God's love for us in providing a substitute who suffered for our sins that we might be forgiven.