From NA MDiv to RA/ATS DMin

[Martin]

Thanks Martin! You are da Man! Please let me know what you hear from RTS.

Eddie,

Your very welcome, glad to help.

Here is the reply I got from Reformed:

Thanks for your inquiry! RTS does not recognize the MDiv degree from Luther Rice Seminary. If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask!

Respecfully,
RTS Jackson Admissions

Not the news I wanted to hear and I certain it is not the news you wanted to hear. Sorry. I deleted the gentleman's name if you want his name I can give it to you (via pm) and you can contact him. Maybe they can work with you or something, maybe not? However it never hurts to ask, right?

 

[Paul33]

The first question is in response to the US Department of Education considering the D.Min. a research degree in ministry and the seminaries/Christian colleges viewing it as a "professional" degree.

If it is only a professional degree and has no utility for teaching in the seminaries and colleges, what does that say about their marketing the degree in the first place?

 

[eddie]

Martin,

Thanks a lot for the info from RTS! I kinda expected that answer.

On the brighter side, I got this from SBTS:

From me to SBTS:

Hello,

I am currently a M.Div student at Luther Rice Seminary. I will finish next year. My M.Div program has not included Greek and Hebrew courses. Also, I am ordained but not in full-time ministry. I have been serving as an associate pastor (non-paid) for several years while working full-time for the federal government.

Can I be considered for admission into the SBTS D.Min program?

Thanks,

Eddie

From SBTS to me:

Eddie:​

You could be considered, provided your cumulative GPA was at least 3.0 on a 4.0 scale. We'd have to evaluate your transcripts, since your MDiv would not be accredited, and the languages would only be a problem if you were interested in the Expository Preaching DMin. The others right now require an accredited MDiv, but not necessarily the languages. Feel free to contact me should you have further questions, and more information is available online at www.sbts.edu/dmin. ​

So, it looks like I have a chance with SBTS. Interestingly, SBTS views my LRU MDiv as unaccredited. Of course, they could turn me down once I've applied, but at least they will consider my application. I will continue checking with the other RA seminaries on my list.​

Thanks again Martin!​

Eddie​

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I am a DMin student at SBTS. If you have the opportunity to go there, I would by all means take it!

 

[eddie]

PastorSBC,

If the Lord gives me a chance to go to SBTS I will go!

Eddie

 

[Martin]

So, it looks like I have a chance with SBTS. Interestingly, SBTS views my LRU MDiv as unaccredited. Of course, they could turn me down once I've applied, but at least they will consider my application. I will continue checking with the other RA seminaries on my list.

==Sounds great! :thumbs:

 

[Pastor Larry]

I'm thankful, however, that at G-C Seminary the resident faculty teach and lead the seminars and that the focus of the D.Min. is research oriented and substantive. In my case, historical theology!

I think at TEDS, the DMin faculty is both resident and adjunct depending on the class. This fall I am taking a class on Romans with Doug Moo. He is non-resident, but it will be a fairly heavily exegetical/theological class from what it looks like.

I am actually in two programs currently, though I will most likely drop out of one of them.

 

[Paul33]

I think at TEDS, the DMin faculty is both resident and adjunct depending on the class. This fall I am taking a class on Romans with Doug Moo. He is non-resident, but it will be a fairly heavily exegetical/theological class from what it looks like.

I am actually in two programs currently, though I will most likely drop out of one of them.

Doug Moo is non-resident but a former professor at TEDS and a current professor at Wheaton!

You are in two programs? I take it that one is a D.Min. program at TEDS. What is the other one?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Yes, I meant to point out that Moo is at Wheaton now. Some of the DMin classes are taught by resident profs such as Van Gemeren and others. The other program is the PhD at BBS. Not sure which I will finish. I may finish both; I may finish neither. Who knows ...

 

[eddie]

Paul and Larry,

May I respectfully ask, WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES YOUR CONVERSATION HAVE TO DO WITH MY THREAD?! I have watched you guys (and others) hijack my thread without saying anything. I just can't take it anymore.

Larry, I wouldn't be impressed if you were pursuing a DMin, ThD, PhD and JD at the same time! I also don't care if you're taking classes with Doug Moo, Scooby-Doo, or Mr. Magoo!! Nor am I impressed by Paul's ability to keep tabs on Doug Moo's whereabouts.

I'll just take my little podunk, unaccredited Luther Rice MDiv and serve the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. You guys can take your RA academic snobbery and go jump in a lake.

Eddie

 

[StefanM]

Discussions often raise corollary issues. There is nothing harmful about discussing them. No one is trying to say that your MDiv is useless or that any of us are better than you. I don't have an MDiv yet.

I entreat you not to let this bother you. This isn't a big deal, and you have received your answers regardless. Having a few posts on corollary issues does not detract from those answers. On BB this happens all the time; we just roll with it.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

wow if that is hijacking a thread, you aint really been paying much attention around the ole BB have ya?

 

[StefanM]

wow if that is hijacking a thread, you aint really been paying much attention around the ole BB have ya?

No kidding. I haven't seen anything about Calvinism, KJVO, or alcohol. In my mind, that's a hijack-free thread! :thumbs:

 

[Paul33]

Yes, I meant to point out that Moo is at Wheaton now. Some of the DMin classes are taught by resident profs such as Van Gemeren and others. The other program is the PhD at BBS. Not sure which I will finish. I may finish both; I may finish neither. Who knows ...

How do you like the Ph.D. program at BBS? Isn't it rather pricey? And how do you do both at the same time? I'm impressed, amazed and perplexed. Can you fill me in? Thanks in advance!

 

[Broadus]

Paul and Larry,

May I respectfully ask, WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES YOUR CONVERSATION HAVE TO DO WITH MY THREAD?! I have watched you guys (and others) hijack my thread without saying anything. I just can't take it anymore.

Larry, I wouldn't be impressed if you were pursuing a DMin, ThD, PhD and JD at the same time! I also don't care if you're taking classes with Doug Moo, Scooby-Doo, or Mr. Magoo!! Nor am I impressed by Paul's ability to keep tabs on Doug Moo's whereabouts.

I'll just take my little podunk, unaccredited Luther Rice MDiv and serve the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. You guys can take your RA academic snobbery and go jump in a lake.

Eddie

Whoa Nellie, Eddie,

I think your questions have been answered. As stated above, related issues arise and make for interesting interaction.

BTW, I had thought that when you refered to LRU as NA that you meant "National Accreditation," not "Non Accreditation." Nobody has said that LRU is not accredited, and, quite frankly, I think it's the pits that RTS, a seminary I like, admire, and advise others to enter, will not accept LRU's MDiv as satisfying the degree prerequisite for their DMin. There are plenty of RA seminaries that I would put LRU's requirements and work up against. It's just bloody arrogant, in my not-so humble opinion.

At any rate, enjoy the interaction. If you have another question about you OP, gently draw the conversation back there. However, a thread is simply that--a conversation. It gets to the point and meanders around and comes back again. Be appreciative of those who take time to interact.

What if you asked a question and no one responded?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Pastor Larry]

Larry, I wouldn't be impressed if you were pursuing a DMin, ThD, PhD and JD at the same time! I also don't care if you're taking classes with Doug Moo, Scooby-Doo, or Mr. Magoo!! Nor am I impressed by Paul's ability to keep tabs on Doug Moo's whereabouts.

I'll just take my little podunk, unaccredited Luther Rice MDiv and serve the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. You guys can take your RA academic snobbery and go jump in a lake.

Eddie, In what I hope willl be taken as a kind word of advice, I am not sure your response here demonstrates the grace required to be a pastor. A softer, more considered response seemed to have been in order. Threads quite naturally go in slightly different directions without removing them from their main theme. I am not trying to impress you. In fact, I was attempting not to say exactly what I was doing but to give my views on the DMin program.

Please, serve Christ with all your heart; but don't judge me as snobbery because I have a desire for more knowledge in order to pastor and lead people better.

 

[eddie]

Everyone,

After a good night's sleep, I have calmed down. I apologize for my ungracious remarks. At first reading it seemed like some academic snobbery was going on, but after going back through the thread I have changed my mind. I WAS WRONG.

By the way, I characterized my LRU MDiv as "unaccredited" because the admissions office at SBTS characterized it as such.

Again, I'm sorry. Thanks for gently straightening me out on this one.

Eddie

P.S. I do think that my "Doug Moo, Scooby-Doo, Mr. Magoo" comment was pretty funny.

 

[Martin]

By the way, I characterized my LRU MDiv as "unaccredited" because the admissions office at SBTS characterized it as such.

==When the Southern Baptist Seminary told you that Luther Rice University is unaccredited they were wrong (ie...they gave you false information). Luther Rice University is accredited by TRACS, which is a recognized accrediting body (Dept. of Education and CHEA). Southern Seminary may choose not to recognize degrees from Luther Rice, or any other school, for any reason they wish. However they are simply wrong when they label it as unaccredited. They may not know that Luther Rice is accredited or it maybe a case of academic snobbery (ie...we think our accreditation is better than...). The fact is that there are regionallly accredited seminaries, and ATS seminaries, and accredited secular universities that honor degrees/credits from Luther Rice University (and other seminaries accredited only by TRACS). Why? Because Luther Rice (etc) is accredited by a recognized accrediting agency. It is the decision of the school, in this case the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, not to honor degrees from Luther Rice.

I might advise you to correct Southern Seminary's misunderstanding and point them to the agencies that could correct their misunderstanding. However since you are desiring to earn your DMin from them, and since they may be willing to honor your MDiv from Luther Rice even though they claimed it was earned from an unaccredited school, I would advise you to just let it go (ie...ignore it). Just keep in mind that what they told you is factually incorrect.

 

[eddie]

Martin,

This is what I told the SBTS admissions rep:

Thanks for the quick response! When you say that my MDiv from Luther Rice would not be accredited, do you mean regionally accredited? Luther Rice is nationally accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS).​

I will submit an application next year. I am really hoping that I will be admitted. ​

Thanks a lot,​

Eddie​

Here is the SBTS response:​

By accredited, our policies mean accredited by the ATS (the Association of Theological Schools in the United States and Canada), which is the main recognized body for graduate and doctoral-level accrediting for theological education. We look forward to receiving your application materials!

So, it appears that SBTS only considers degrees from ATS schools to be accredited. Interesting...​

Eddie​

​

 

[StefanM]

Martin,

This is what I told the SBTS admissions rep:

Thanks for the quick response! When you say that my MDiv from Luther Rice would not be accredited, do you mean regionally accredited? Luther Rice is nationally accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS).​

I will submit an application next year. I am really hoping that I will be admitted. ​

Thanks a lot,​

Eddie​

Here is the SBTS response:​

By accredited, our policies mean accredited by the ATS (the Association of Theological Schools in the United States and Canada), which is the main recognized body for graduate and doctoral-level accrediting for theological education. We look forward to receiving your application materials!

So, it appears that SBTS only considers degrees from ATS schools to be accredited. Interesting...​

Eddie​

​

I'm not surprised by the ATS snobbery.