Fundamental visibility

[Hvnsaved]

Why is it that great Fundamental ministries and churches are relatively unknown by the national audience and media? Let me demonstrate, using a negative: Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker lost their ministries at the time of their scandals. Yet, I recently read about Jack Hyles, Bob Grary Sr., and Bob Gray Jr. and their scandals on the Internet, and I about choked. Their scandals - Hyles in particular - made Swagaart and Bakker's scandal look like a birthday party. YET.....Hyles never lost his ministry - in fact, his college and church continued to boom, and does to this day. I didn't even know of those scandals until I saw them on an INDIRECT Internet search for something else. Yet, everyone in America knows about Bakker and Swaggart. Why???? The following are what I see as the reasons why:


1. IF Baptist churches and their "separation" emphasis keeps them off the major Christian networks, such as TBN, ISPN, Sky Angel, etc, etc... They simply cannot fathom having a program of theirs following the 700 Club.

2. IF Baptist Churches hail "the pastor" as untouchable andf "the man of God"....thou shalt not touch God's anointed! The deacons at Hyles-Anderson / First Baptist of Hammond KNEW for years about Hyles abominable behaviour but PROTECTED the man and kept the majority of the people in the dark about it. Hyles' ruined several lives and was taken to court, etc.. No matter, though, since the leadership either kept it hid or told people that he was innocent.

3. Hyles had numbers, whether those souls saved were really saved or not. This may have been construed by those who admired - dare I say "worshipped" him - as some sort of evidence of God's approval of Hyles and of Hyles innocence, despite the obvious guilt.


Now, for positive suggestions:


1. Possibly a rethink is in order by leaders of the IF Baptist movement in respect to getting on the national radar screen. Think of the souls that would be saved if the many great, soul-winning preachers within the IF Baptist realm were on TBN!! But they are completely absent because of the "separatistic" stand of IF Baptist churches.

2. "The pastor" - You won't find those two words anywhere in the New Testament! What am I saying? Perhaps a rethink on the part of IF Baptist churches is in order on this point as well. N.T. leadership is from the bottom up, not top down. IF Baptist churches are too often run like a corporation, with "the pastor/president" at the top ruling "over" the flock. An out-of-balance view of pastoral "leadership" causes many problems. Hyles was known for his "pastoral leadership" conferences. He said such things as "I have no doubt that if I told one of my deacons to jump off a cliff right now they would do it (something to this effect)." Thus, IF Baptist churches "tend" to allow unbelievable pastoral abuses, though they don't see it that way.

3. Big numbers are not necessarily evidence of true fruit, God's approval, or one's innocence!



Your thoughts???


Hvsaved

 

[christianyouth]

Hvsaved,

I believe there are other reasons why some of the great IFB preachers would not make it on network TV like TBN,TCT, ect.

1) The majority of IFB's hail from small local churchs, not mega-churches such as the WoF, and new-evangelical movement..

2) The doctrine is usually less appealing to seekers. For example, a good number of IFB preachers stand up and call sin by its rightful name, not a good thing if you want to get a contract on TBN.

3) Fundamental is considered to be a dirty word now days by most people.

Im guessing that is some of the reasons why the air waves do not have more IFB preachers.

 

[drfuss]

Hvnsaved writes:
"Why is it that great Fundamental ministries and churches are relatively unknown by the national audience and media? Let me demonstrate, using a negative: Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker lost their ministries at the time of their scandals. Yet, I recently read about Jack Hyles, Bob Grary Sr., and Bob Gray Jr. and their scandals on the Internet, and I about choked. Their scandals - Hyles in particular - made Swagaart and Bakker's scandal look like a birthday party. YET.....Hyles never lost his ministry - in fact, his college and church continued to boom, and does to this day. I didn't even know of those scandals until I saw them on an INDIRECT Internet search for something else. Yet, everyone in America knows about Bakker and Swaggart. Why???? "

Bakker lost his ministry probably because he went to jail. I suspect there would have been plenty of people who would have supported him had he been available. There seems to be plenty of pastor worshippers in most denominations.

Both Bakker and Swaggart were Assembly of God ministers and both withdrew from the AOG rather than submit to discipline.

Swaggart did not lose his ministry, but it was greatly reduced. He is still on TV and still owns his church and surrounding property.

hvnsaved writes:
"2. IF Baptist Churches hail "the pastor" as untouchable andf "the man of God"....thou shalt not touch God's anointed! The deacons at Hyles-Anderson / First Baptist of Hammond KNEW for years about Hyles abominable behaviour but PROTECTED the man and kept the majority of the people in the dark about it. Hyles' ruined several lives and was taken to court, etc.. No matter, though, since the leadership either kept it hid or told people that he was innocent."

This is one of the drawbacks of completely independent churches. For Bakker and Swaggart being in the AOG, they would have been removed from having a ministry for at least two years. The AOG provides and controls the ministers credentials. That is why they withdrew.

Of course there are many "preachers club" organizational problems in churches that are not independent. But if a minister goes bad in a completely independent church and he has some support in the church, there is nothing a Christian can do but leave.

BTW, the "touch not the Lord's annointed" applied only to the priests and kings of the O.T. The "obey THOSE who have the rule over you" N.T. scriptures apply to a group of equal elders and not a single pastor. It never says "obey HIM who has the rule over you" as many pastors lead us to believe to grind their own axes. Most churches have a constitution and bylaws to provide balance in church operations since we now have a senior pastor system and the scriptures only address a church run by a group of elders.