The point I have been making is that there are no Biblically sound ways to insert gaps into timespans. Specifically the timespan given as an ordered timeline in Genesis 1-2:3
Deacon argued that this is not true if we are allowed to inject gaps into one of Daniel's timespans - then why not inject them into Genesis 1.
My point was simply that NO timespan will survive such a process.
Pastor Larry has then asked that I show NOT ONLY that the time span SURVIVES when we don't insert gaps - but going BEYOND that - show how the second timeline of Daniel 9 maps out without gaps inserted. He asked for an explalnation of specific details in the 490 year time span when we choose not to insert gaps into the time given.
And so ... after not giving that information and being asked repeatedly to do so...
I have made these last 3 posts.
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Dan 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, AND the People of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
Certainly it is agreed that "After the 69th week" Christ was crucified - in fact He was crucified in the midst of the 70th week which also meant the sacrifices were at an end.
AND after that - (in fact long after that) - the city and the sanctuary were destroyed by the peopl of Rome - the Roman army (70 A. D) but that is another event AFTER the 69th week and After the cross and After even the 70th week.
But in the NT - it is the Jews THEMSELVES that bring about the destruction of the city according to Christ's own statements. The people of the Prince who is to come - Messiah the Prince - His people are the Jews and the NT declares that THEY were the "People" that would not let God spare the city.
In John 1 we are told that the "people of Messiah the Prince" are the Jews. "HE came unto His own and His own received Him not". Isaiah 9:6 foretells the same message of the Messiah as coming prince - Dan 9:25
In Mat 23:37-38 we are told that Christ came to save the city and the nation but the "people of the prince" would not have it.
Matt 23:
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and YOU were unwilling.
When Christ weeps over the city He says - the city is destroyed because of a specific reason relating to the people of the prince..
Luke 19:41-444 "Because You did not know the time of your visitation".
Daniel uses the symbol for war "a flood" and declares that war and desolation are "Decreed". Indeed Moses did predict that just such a result would occur.
Dan 9:26 And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
The "house left desolate" Matt 23:38 is a direct fulfillment of what "is decreed" by God
1Kings 9:6-7, Jer 22:5, Micah 3:11-12, Ezek 11:21-23.
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Dan 9:27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week,
Daniel is told that
the period of "strengthening" the covenant last for the entire 7 years - for the entire 70th week (that follows the 69th week.) The historicist messianic view presented here promotes the full 7 year period as the time when the covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-32 (Hebrews 8:8-12) is being "Confirmed" and strengthened - in conformity with the text of Dan 9.
Christ says explicitly that the work of the Messiah is very much tied to the covenant
Matt 26:28 "This is My blood of the Covenant", which is shed on behalf of Many for the forgiveness of sins"
1Cor 11:25 "This cup IS the New Covenant in My blood".
2Cor 3 tells us that it is the New Covenant alone that is "the ministry of righteousness" and "the covenant that gives life" .
Galations 1:6-9 tells us that there has been only one gospel. And the message of the New Covenant alone is life, forgiveness and restored fellowship with God as we see it in Heb 8:8-12).
At the start of Christ's ministry we have the covenant "strengthend" in the form of the Long promised Messiah of the New Covenant finally arriving.
In the middle of "the week" of seven years we have the New Covenant "strengthened" in the form of the atoning sacrifice being made.
Then in the last 3.5 years we have it "strengthened" in the form of the full message of the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah preached in its fullness to the Hebrew nation church - the "Holy Nation" "Royal Priesthood" - "People for God's own possession".
At each step the convenant is strengthened until it reaches its complete zenith of proclamation to the Hebrews.
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Daniel 9:27 in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;
Here we do not see "the covenant ended" - rather
the covenant is strengthened for the full 7 years. What we see is that the sacrifices of the OT Hebrew nation church - end in the middle of the week. THe Messiah's atoning sacrifice brings about the end of sacrifices.
Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, "" SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6 IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
...
9 then He said, "" BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.'' He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
...
16 "" THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,'' He then says,
17 "" AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.''
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Heb 7
12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
...
19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Daniel's prophecy highlights one of the key gospel doctrines regarding the sacrificial system in relationship to the atoning death of the Messiah. Here we see that the sacrifices themselves would end - as they are merely shadows pointing TO the work of the Messiah (Col 2:17).
ONE alternative to this gospel central view - is that the event being highlighted (in this epic prophecy regarding the coming Messiah in 480 years) - is that the minor aspect of the Roman people and the Roman Ceasar as they stop the defunct worship practices of an apostate Jewish church about 40 years after the Messiah negates their usefullness.
(Truly a trivialization of the mammoth gospel themes that the first view highlights in Daniel 9.) This view bypasses the aspect of the Romans slaughtering the Jews - and focuses instead on their act in stopping sacrifices that are already made void by the Messiah some 40 years prior to this.
Another even less useful concept is that this key segment of Daniel's prophecy focused on an insignificant and pointless act of a future Antichrist at the end of time who stops Jewish animal sacrifices already made void some 2000 years prior to that by the Messiah, sacrifices Already stopped by Rome 2000 years prior and omitted in this prophecy. (One wonders if the antichrist is to be applauded for that or criticized).
The double problem in this view is that stopping what Christ already made void is pointless just as stopping what was Already Stopped is pointless. So you must also invent an entirely NEW imaginative story line to precede this event. One where God re-instituting the defunct "Shadows" sacrices that pointed FORWARD to Christ's first coming. This means trading the more gospel centric view of Christ as the antitype for all Hebrew temple sacrifices and replacing that with this anti-christ centric view of sacrifices-resumed then-stopped-again -- hard to swallow by every standard.
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Dan 9:27 and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
The abominations begin with the rejection of the Hebrew nation of it's own king and Messiah and the curse pronounced on themselves "His blood be upon us and upon our children" Matt 27:24-25. And it completes with the work of the pagan Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem and making a "complete destruction" in 70 A.D.
This is a view endorsed by the NT apostles and rejected by NT Jews.
Acts 2:23
22 ""Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know
23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
24 "" But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
Acts 4:8-10
7 When they had placed them in the center, they began to inquire, ""By what power, or in what name, have you done this?''
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "" Rulers and elders of the people,
9 if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well,
10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead by this name this man stands here before you in good health.
1 Thess 2
14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews,
15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men,
16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.
I really wish Paul would lighten up a bit.
Acts 5:28-30
27 When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them,
28 saying, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us."
IN Christ,
Bob
[ November 29, 2002, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
