Correct me if I'm wrong, but those early PBs did not only object to mission boards but to missions in general. PB "Pinoy" on the BB has said just as much, and believes that people can get saved in other countries without the Gospel. Is this what you believe?Which was:
“Originally Posted by kyredneck
Because they refused to change when everyone else around them was succumbing to the great commission of the Church to populate heaven through missionary boards they are now castigated as 'hyper'.
How did folks ever make it to heaven before the invention of missions?”
OK, that's a STRONG statement of fact, the PBs are considered 'hyper' bacause they did not adopt foreign mission boards.
The problem here is that you lumped all us non-PB missionaries together. There are three missionaries who post on the BB: C4K, me, and another person in a "closed" country whose name I will not mention. We are all three in "Gospel resistant" countries, and to my knowledge, none of us use the kind of appeal you are talking about. I never tell people in the homeland that Japanese go to Hell because I do not witness to them. They go to Hell because of their own depravity (Rom. 1, esp. v. 20).Which was:
“Originally Posted by kyredneck
but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man`s conscience in the sight of God. 2 Cor 4:2
There is nothing 'trifling' about the outright lies, deceit, and making merchandise of the flock that has arisen from the man made 'great commission' of the Church to populate heaven.”
My grandfather called this kind of appeal "Unworthy Missionary Appeals" in one of his books. I've never made such an appeal and it is not right for you to lump missionaries like me with such people. And on that I have STRONG FEELINGS.Yea, I could have toned that one down a bit. But the fact is I've strong feelings and MANY memories from my own experience with mission appeals that are nothing short of deceitful tactics designed to convince the sheep of their absolute duty/necessity to give to missions (over and beyond tithing of course) or people will perish in hell. Here's more of the passage, which I believe to be right in context to what I'm referring to:
Yes, but you left out v. 5: "For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake." Please know that you are quoting a missionary here, one who faithfully preached the Gospel in many countries. And by the way, in the same book he commended the church at Corinth for supporting missions: "Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf." (1:11).1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, even as we obtained mercy, we faint not:
2 but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man`s conscience in the sight of God.
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them. 2 Cor 4
I object STRONGLY to the word "propaganda" in reference to anything my kind of missionary does.It was directed towards THE TACTICS used for funding of these mission. Again, from post#39:
“What I'm against is the lie that their support is increasing the numbers of the redeemed in heaven. I despise the lie that people will perish in hell if the flock doesn't financially support a mission board.”
“That is a common misconception the majority have of the Church, and I believe a primary reason for that is propaganda promugated by missionaries and others whose livlihoods depend on such notions such as that, and hardline restrictivism.”
Take note I said livelihood and not wealth. It is an inherent conundrum with any salaried ministers. You'd be kinda shooting yourself in the foot were you to reject a doctrine like hardline restrictivism, now wouldn't you?
As for salaried ministers, Paul specifically taught that missionaries should be supported financially in their work (1 Cor. 9:1-14). So if there is a conundrum, God put it there.
I don't give a salmon sushi how many buses you have. Very few IFB churches have bus ministries anymore anyway.Aren't you going to ask how many buses we have?
God called me to be a missionary to Japan through Rom. 15:20-21, a passage conveniently ignored by the PB position, as is 10:14-15. Never mind predestination, God requires that the Gospel be given by people, who are His willing tools. God saves, but believers give the Gospel. Whether believers are predestined to give the Gospel is another subject entirely.
Excellent! But were these missionaries sent out by their local church as is the Biblical pattern in Acts 13:1-6?FYI, there are PBs in this area that are supporting a work in the Phillipines. I personally helped to support a friend of mine there doing translation.
How nice. But it adds nothing to your position. I know Buddhist Japanese who are politer and nice to those they know personally than the average American. So what? The Muslims are required to take in strangers and treat them like family. So what?The Old Baptists I've come to know are some of the most generous kind hearted folks you'll ever meet and eager to help others.