I used to go to a KJV-only, Bible believeing, independent, fundamental, Baptist church. They had a cake-walk once in a while, where a bunch of people each pay a dollar and then walk in a circle - when the music stops the person in a specific position wins a cake. Usually 20-50 or more cakes were donated by church members. The profits went to missions. The people who participated, paying a dollar, did so hoping to win a cake. I'll write them a letter right away and tell them they are heathens and that they think the Bible is a lie, because they approve of gambling. Will that make you feel better?
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Gambling, a sin???????
- Thread starter Xenos
- Start date
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
A
amixedupmom
Guest
Humm, i'm not totally sure on this but, I would like to say this. Last I knew I was a sinner even though i was saved. A SAVED person is no diffrent from soneone else. WE have the same exact temptations as everyone else. But, what i would like to point out . Is now i have GOD on my side. And though i might fall . I know he is with me....... FOREVER .... i might fall but with God's help maybe i won't trip next time
If gambling in any form is wrong, then the Apostles were wrong in one of their first acts as they 'cast lots' to determine whether Matthias or Joseph (Justus) were to be 'numbered' with the Eleven.
I know my math too well to think that gambling is anything smart, unless you have the skill and knowledge the other person does not have, and thus you are taking advantage of that person's weakness. So it's hard to see that sin will not be somewhere involved in these endeavors.
On the other hand, doing unswise things with one's posessions and taking advantage of the lack of abilities in other persons is so commonplace and accepted that we must all live in sin on account of it. Most-- probbly all-- of us take advantage of "sales" a store is offering because they have a surplus of certain items in inventory; the cost is less, but the tiem is the same as its higher cost shortly before. And frankly it's hard to see the logic that gambling-- poker, slots, lotteries-- is 'sin' because of covetousness, but investing is not the same, even though someone has to lose to make your investment successful-- for example, those who bought the same stock at a higher price and must sell it for a loss, or those who do business with the company you invest it. And isn't it covetousness anyway, since the reason you invest is to GAIN money currently in possession of other persons?-- wanting what they have.
It should be no big surprise that we vary greatly as to where we 'draw the line' on this. For myself, I don't buy lottery tickets and have no poker buddies, and I'm glad there are no casinos near me. But if I am going to watch a football game with a friend and we are rooting for different teams, I have no qualms about an agreement that which one of our teams loses, that one has to pay for the steak dinners afterword. And I wouldn't mind flipping a coin or rolling the dice to determine who takes whose car wherever, or who buys the snacks.
I know my math too well to think that gambling is anything smart, unless you have the skill and knowledge the other person does not have, and thus you are taking advantage of that person's weakness. So it's hard to see that sin will not be somewhere involved in these endeavors.
On the other hand, doing unswise things with one's posessions and taking advantage of the lack of abilities in other persons is so commonplace and accepted that we must all live in sin on account of it. Most-- probbly all-- of us take advantage of "sales" a store is offering because they have a surplus of certain items in inventory; the cost is less, but the tiem is the same as its higher cost shortly before. And frankly it's hard to see the logic that gambling-- poker, slots, lotteries-- is 'sin' because of covetousness, but investing is not the same, even though someone has to lose to make your investment successful-- for example, those who bought the same stock at a higher price and must sell it for a loss, or those who do business with the company you invest it. And isn't it covetousness anyway, since the reason you invest is to GAIN money currently in possession of other persons?-- wanting what they have.
It should be no big surprise that we vary greatly as to where we 'draw the line' on this. For myself, I don't buy lottery tickets and have no poker buddies, and I'm glad there are no casinos near me. But if I am going to watch a football game with a friend and we are rooting for different teams, I have no qualms about an agreement that which one of our teams loses, that one has to pay for the steak dinners afterword. And I wouldn't mind flipping a coin or rolling the dice to determine who takes whose car wherever, or who buys the snacks.
Now, its a tad different for investing in the stock market! Lets just say that I have $500.00 and I invest that in, say, ExxonMobil shares. Say the stock is selling now for $45.00/share. I now own 11.11111 shares of stock in ExxonMobil.
Tomorrow I check the stock reports and find ExxonMobil selling for $46.50/share--I own 11.1111 shares and have returned a positive investment now worth $516.66615.
But suppose it slips in value--well, I only loose the value but not the shares. Lets just say that the next day the stock slips to $43.00/share. My 11.11111 shares are now worth 473.00. But I'm still hanging on to my shares.
But lets just say I plunk down $1000.00 on SeaBisquit and the blasted nag lets me down--what happens then! Not only did SeaBisquit loose--but I loose!! See??
Blackbird
Tomorrow I check the stock reports and find ExxonMobil selling for $46.50/share--I own 11.1111 shares and have returned a positive investment now worth $516.66615.
But suppose it slips in value--well, I only loose the value but not the shares. Lets just say that the next day the stock slips to $43.00/share. My 11.11111 shares are now worth 473.00. But I'm still hanging on to my shares.
But lets just say I plunk down $1000.00 on SeaBisquit and the blasted nag lets me down--what happens then! Not only did SeaBisquit loose--but I loose!! See??
Blackbird
latterrain77
New Member
Hi Xenos. I hear your frustration. But please don't be flustered. The fact is that the Bible does not specifically speak to gambling as it does concerning; fornication, adultery, lying, stealing, and the other things that you mentioned. Nevertheless, I'm mindful of Romans 14: 21. If gambling is a sin to Xenos, then who would dream of throwing any dice in your direction? ("pay the don'ts").
However, to put things is some perspective for you, please consider that the "lust" for money is potent at EVERY level of society, including and especially the so-called "respectable" levels of society. Money lust exists from the casino, to Nasdaq, to the boardrooms, to the Union Halls, to the church basket. In fact, money lust rests within EACH of us to one degree or another. The truly wise among us recognize that MONEY is highly fleeting (Proverbs 23: 5). Have you ever tried to hold water in your hands?
There IS something sinful about obtaining wealth through the exploitation of others. Remarkably, the "gambler" does not exploit ANYONE. If anything, he himself is exploited when others (many of them PUBLIC entities) push LOUSY "high vig" bets the gamblers way.
Yet, I can think of many "respectable" executives who exploit everyone from their clients right on down to their fellow workers, in a manner that makes gambling and casinos look like Sesame Street. Is exploitation of others considered "labouring?" (James 5: 1-4). Thanks!
(Prov 16:33 KJV) The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
You can't Win the Lottery without a Ticket!
You can't Win the Lottery without a Ticket!
ScottEmerson
Active Member
I have 10 dollars so I "invest" that in 2 lottery ticket. The first one wins me $40 - hooray! The second one loses, but I still am able to hold on to the ticket. Would you not say that is the same rationale that you are using? Even when the share/ticket loses money, you still are holding "something."
BTW, I hate the lottery. I'd never play it, and I don't really understand people who do.
It is definitely possible you could LOSE all the money you put into any shares of stock; unlikely with a long-established company, but much more than a 'remote possibility' playing 'penny stocks.' So if your contention that the activity is gambling because you can lose everything you put into it, then investing is gambling. That is a faulty premise.
Now, its a tad different for investing in the stock market!... But suppose it slips in value--well, I only loose the value but not the shares. Lets just say that the next day the stock slips to $43.00/share. My 11.11111 shares are now worth 473.00. But I'm still hanging on to my shares.
Clearly, you did not invest in tech stocks. Your shares would have been pretty much worthless. And with some companies that ended up goiong under, your stocks ended up with a zero value.
Clearly, you did not invest in tech stocks.
Your shares would have been pretty much worthless. And with some companies that ended up goiong under, your stocks ended up with a zero value.Terry_Herrington
New Member
Concerning smoking,
Diane said, "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Cor. 6:19 (KJV)
To elaborate on this:
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." 1 Cor. 3:16,17 (KJV)
But to define exactly what "defile" means, listen to what Jesus said:
"Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man." Matt. 15:17.18 (KJV)
Diane said, "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Cor. 6:19 (KJV)
To elaborate on this:
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." 1 Cor. 3:16,17 (KJV)
But to define exactly what "defile" means, listen to what Jesus said:
"Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man." Matt. 15:17.18 (KJV)