Gambling ?

My question is, what kind of witness is it when people see you there or know you gamble? Don't we have a responsibility to the Lord to show Him off in our lives? Isn't that what being a Christian is? Aren't we supposed to be building up the body of Christ and not presenting weaker members with temptation?

It seems to me that we should be holding ourselves to a much higher standard in a world that is finding excuses for everything now. What is wrong with simply doing what is right?

 

Hey, now what's all this about? God may choose to bless us if we gamble? and if we win that is proof that He did? And there is nothing wrong with using your entire paycheck to buy lottery tickets as long as you are "trusting God for the outcome?"

This is a slick surface you're trying to stand on. You know bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, I assume. And that God sends the rain on the just and the unjust. If you know any Christian who is successful in every attempt at anything with the slightest risk involved-- drives dangerously and never has an accident; gets every job or contract he ever applies for; makes outdoor plans which are never thwarted by the weather-- then this idea may hold water. But I don't know anyone like that. Christians are as subject to probability as anyone else, even if they think they do put every minute issue into God's hands.

Many Christians do, however, grasp for what you have stated. They just call their ante "tithing" instead of gambling.

 

Critique taken, and I will keep that in mind.

I know that it has been a liesurely activity for me in the past, though rarely. I've never remotely had any kind of abuse issue with it. If I did, I'd be refraining from it (now caffiene on the other hand, we've got a whole new thread there). If you don't think it's a liesurely activity, then don't engage in it. If someone is claiming it's a liesurely activity, but are secreatly desiring to go primarily for the purpose of winning big, then they're decieving themselves. However, for those it truly is a liesurely activity for, allow them the liberty.

I'm sorry, the only point I saw was that the absence of a bible verse does not mean there are not biblical principles to apply. I actually agree with you here. But liesure activities are not not covered by scripture differently than other activities. So the biblical princilpes that would apply would be the same for most other non-spiritual activities: Does it cause one to sin or lead to abuse that causes one to sin? If gambling, or any activity, does these, then one should refrain from that activity. But that is an individual matter, not an across the baord matter for all Christians.

 

What IS an across the board matter for ALL Christian, John are

Is this building up the body of Christ?
Does this honor God?
Is this a godly witness to the unbeliever?

I challenge you to show that gambling at a casino or any other professional establishment qualifies in any of those categories.

 

Hey, now what's all this about? God may choose to bless us if we gamble? and if we win that is proof that He did? And there is nothing wrong with using your entire paycheck to buy lottery tickets as long as you are "trusting God for the outcome?"

This is a slick surface you're trying to stand on. You know bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, I assume. And that God sends the rain on the just and the unjust. If you know any Christian who is successful in every attempt at anything with the slightest risk involved-- drives dangerously and never has an accident; gets every job or contract he ever applies for; makes outdoor plans which are never thwarted by the weather-- then this idea may hold water. But I don't know anyone like that. Christians are as subject to probability as anyone else, even if they think they do put every minute issue into God's hands.

Many Christians do, however, grasp for what you have stated. They just call their ante "tithing" instead of gambling. </font>[/QUOTE]I am not going to argue with you now. Read what I said again.

 

It still reads the same way.

 

No. That is why I tell Christians they should not make abortion an issue of doctrine. I am personally against elective abortion, as you know, but I do not claim that my view is a scriptural absolute.

Some people have interpreted it as such, and many here have. However, I think scripture is clear that God frowns upon slavery, as examplified by the fact that He freed the Jews from their captivity. The issue of slavery falls into the same category sa women pastors: there exists scriptural implication.

We are to have dominion over the earth. Dominion implies responsibility for the same. We do indeed pollute the earth. That is inevitable. We break God's instrctions when we fail to take responsibility for what we create.

You've already said that you frown upon me because I have a savings account for vacationing, and that this is an unloving thing for me to do. Hence, I think your presupposition is wrong. I think that it's healthy and wise to take extended time out for yourself. If one wants to gamble as part of that tiem out, so long as it does not become abusive, then it is permissible as any other liesurely activity.

That can be applied to condemn most forms of liesure or recreation. I certainly did not have love of God or fellow man in mind when I went to Walt Disney World or Hawaii this year. So I guess those were sins as well. Your arguement is a bit of a straw man in that respect.

Same arguement. I personally think it's imperative that everyone take at least two weeks off a year for nothing but liesure. It refreshes the mind, body, and spirit as a whole. If one wants to spend some time on vacation at a blackjack table, then enjoy. If there's something else you'd rather be doing, then do it.

You're assuming I don't?

It doesn't. Neither does laying out at the pool, learing how to do the hula, snorkeling, hiking, eating lobster at Cinderella's castle, having my photo taken with Minnie Mouse, speaking Klingon, or shopping on the Deep Space Nine promenade. But I did those things on my vacation as well.

 

Okay, I'll bite:

If my wife and I are engaging in responsible liesure and vacation, and gambling is part of it, then it is building up my relationship with my wife, and the two of us are indeed the body of Christ.

It honors God when a loving husband and wife are spending liesurely time with each other.

A loving couple on vacation is indeed, imo, a Godly witness. Vacationing at Treasure Island is no exception (or our favorite place in Vegas, The Las Vegas Hilton, because it's home to Star Trek: The Experience).

BTW, did I mention we got married there? On the Bridge of the Enterprise? And our reception was in Quarks.

 

That's just slipping out of it. If that was the only way to build up your marriage that would be one thing. I am assuming it is not.

 

Interesting discussion, I want to take it a step further. I have friends who are Christians that breed race horses.They do not race them but sell them and they get a % of 1st 2nd and 3rd of their earnings after they are sold. They themselves do not gamble maybe a couple dollars on one of thier horses running or a friends. No more than one would waste in a day at the fair or video games. Anyway they see it as a business ( if done right ) and a sport. What do you all think about that ? is it wrong to be a part of a gambling business.

 

Do we have to run all of our spending past you for approval? I spend $200 yearly on health insurance for my cats. Am I sinning by not sending that to feed the hungry somewhere? A couple of years ago I spent $100 for a year to be a member of a gun club. Was that ok? I'd like to go on a week-long canoeing trip with my dad in a few years. Is it ok with you if I take a week off work and spend money on that? After all, there are conceivably a dozen other ways we could spend the time to build our relationship. I just need to make sure you'll sign off on this particular method.

Regarding the actual topic at hand, I tend to lean towards Johnv's opinion, but I'm leery of state lotteries and casinos. I come from a poor state where there are people who constantly shell out money they can't afford to waste to get a 1/10 million chance at winning a couple million dollars. I think state lotteries are really an unethical way of getting state funding. I would feel like I was doing something wrong if I bought a ticket, so I won't. But I'm not going to sneer at someone else if they decide to buy a lottery ticket every once in a while.

Casinos are a bit different. Most people there can afford to lose the money they spend and they do think of it as a fun leisure activity. However, casinos are also connected in a lot of people's minds with things like drugs, drinks, and girls. Some of my unsaved coworkers might think wrongly of it if I went to a casino. This doesn't really inconvenience me because I don't want to go anyways! But if someone else goes to a casino and spends some money on blackjack, that's really their business.

 

No, there are many things we do do build up our marriage. Your presumption that there is another way doesn't negate the one. The fact that there are many doesn't mean there's something wrong with any.

There's simply no scriptural way one can label gambling a sin. One can indeed label abuse of it a sin, no question about that. And the abuse issue needs to be seriously dealt with. Anyone who engages in any liesure activity needs to make sure that the liesure does not become abused. There is indeed abuse of gambling. But gambling itself? No. It is not a sin.

 

So any opinions on my question ? Anyone ?

 

I don't see anything, other than what I already stated in the link below, that appears to be a scriptural violation, admonishment, or a sin, in your example.


http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/10/5282.html#000002

 

Then you haven't read it right. Still...not going to argue with you.

 

RightFromWrong,

I used to be half owner of a broodmare farm for Thoroughbreds -- many years ago. Seeing what happened to the animals, I would never do it again out of regard for them! Win or die is sort of the rule, and the idea of breeding beautiful animals to die is not my idea of a good profession. Not anymore, anyway! Nor do I consider it even slightly reasonable to ask Thoroughbreds to race as two year olds, before their bones are mature.

Now, that rant aside, I don't know about the idea of breeding them for the sake of racing anymore. I know it's not good for the animals. I know that people do gamble at races, so it encourages that. But I also know the joy of working with those gorgeous animals! For me, having been a breeder and (up to yearling stage) a trainer, the question is very difficult and maybe I am too much into the forest to see the trees on this one.

What we do now is rescue work with some of these animals, which I find much more satisfying and worthwhile personally.

As far, Petrel and John, as running anything by ME, that is out of the question. What you do with yourself and yours has nothing to do with me and is not my business. What is my business, as a Christian, is to remind you, as Christians, that our responsibility is to God and obeying Him. Our time, our money, all our resources are essentially His. We will be accountable to Him for what we have done with them. That is all I have been trying to say through all of this.

 

I grew up around gambling and it seems the normal thing to me.

 

Then, in the future, if gambling ever compromises my obedience to God, I will abstain from it from then on out.

Which is kinda what I've been saying all along that we should do.

 

How cool!! My husband is going to be jealous when I tell him that.

 

I believe gambling to be a bad witness to the lost and to weak Christians. While excess is clearly a sin, moderation doesn't have a leg to stand on either. Drinking and eating are necessary, moderation is called for. Gambling isn't necessary and moderation isn't called for.

If you (generic you) find gambling to be neutral then at least consider this:

1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

I do not find it to be neutral, however, your gambling will not cause me to stumble. But, there are many, many people who WILL stumble at gambling because you and/or others like you, have encouraged and approved it. When you take pride in exercising your liberty at the expense of weaker brethren, you have sinned against Christ (v12).