Gambling

I agree that not everything that is permissible is beneficial. But that hasn't been the issue here. The issue has been whether gambling is a sin or not.

 

Not if their specific gambling is for a sinful purpose, and not if doing so presents a bad witness, causes anther to stumble, etc. If this is doable, then a Christian can without affecting their moral character or righteousness.

I don't think that a friendly wager of two bucks, or over who picks up dinner, etc, between adult christians is in any way a reflection of questionable character.

 

Dear Johnv:

You did a good job explaining the relationship between interpretation, conviction, and legalism. Anyone who hasn't got it yet probably won't.

 

I find God's Word a little more authoritive than you, and more authoritive than you do.

gambling:
a : to play a game for money or property b : to bet on an uncertain outcome
2 : to stake something on a contingency : take a chance
transitive senses
1 : to risk by gambling : WAGER
2 : VENTURE, HAZARD

By defintion, gambling is sin:

Romans 14:23b:for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

Aside from perverting Romans 14:23, you fail completely to assert that all who gamble are doing something not out of faith.

In order for your claim to be consistent, you must condemn anyone who has a retirement or stock account. You must also condemn all who plays any sorts of games that involve chance regardless of whether money is involved, such as crazy eights, or uno. You must further condemn anyone who enters free drawings or giveaways, or plays the monopoly game at McDonalds.

 

You are stretching your imagination beyond eternity to make such outlandish statements. The problem is you are addicted to gambling.

 

I had a great-uncle who invested heavily in the stock market and a cousin who was a horse trainer who tended to bet on the horses especially his own. One day the horse trainer said to the investor (deacon in the FBC) that he didn't see anything different in the morality of what they did. In both cases you're trying to make money without working for it. In both cases there is always a winner and a loser in every transaction (race). In both cases you're not trying to cause someone else to lose you're trying to win. In fact, you don't ever think about the loser. You think you're playing against the "house."

That being said, I believe that people can get badly sidetracked by either one of these activities.

 

Dear StraightAndNarrow:

Good example. But I think the horse trainer actually has the better case. At least he has some effect upon the outcome, unless the investor is doing some insider trading.

Which brings up another thought: Is it gambling to work at a job that pays by commmission and not just a straight salary?

 

My belief is that there are really two criteria to consider:

1) Does this activity come between me and God?

2) Will I cause another brother (or a non-Christian) to stray because of this activity?

I suppose you could also add, "Will I hurt my family or myself in terms of finances if I do this?"

I will add this. I personally have been hung up on both of these at different times in my life. One excuse was that since I grew up in KY horse racing was part of my heritage, especially the KY Derby. I think the Derby (and the Triple Crown) was OK for me but when it got to be a fairly regular activity I believe I started hurting myself. It wasn't so much the money (I'm a pretty good handicapper) it was the time and the witness.

I am a Deacon in the church and I have a "fish with a cross inside" sticker on my car. I used to walk out of the track and wonder how many people had seen my car at the track and decided that Christians were hypocrites and that they weren't going to try church that weekend or in the near future.

 

I am? I can't even recall the last time I gambled.

Yet another pharisaical phrase that you need to repent of.

 

On the other hand, maybe an unsaved gambler will see your sticker and be convicted to investigate. I wonder how many unsaved people stay that way as a result of the success(?) legalists have had at getting their false messages out to the unsaved?

 

Seriously, I do think there is an opportunity to evangelize at the racetrack but it has to be handles very carefully. Maybe in other types of gambling like blackjack or poker there is a strong feeling of trying to "take the other guy's money" but at the track that's not at all true. Fellow denizons of the track cheer on each other when they hit a big one and commiserate with them when they lose by a nose. I've made friends at the track that I would never have met otherwise.

I still believe, though, that on balance like most other things it is something that should only be done in moderation. But then you can enjoy the beauty of the sport and it is awesome to watch a really good thoroughbred race. I was at the top of the stretch at Churchill Downs on Derby Day where my horse (Bet Twice) took the lead and looked like the certain Derby winner. But alas and alack he got run down in mid-stretch and lost to Aleysheba.

 

Evangelize at the racetrack? Sure, get 'em saved and teach 'em to pray for a winner....NOT!

Gamble in moderation? I'll bet 2 pennies on the bobtail nag, not a penny more. don't want to overdo it...Not!

 

Where do you go to talk to the unsaved? The First Bap[tist church? Wellllll, let's don't get into that but you have to go to the places they frequent, That being said, as I said before, gambling should be viewed with caution and done (if at all) in moderation.

 

WWJD?

Once again, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if legalists had not been so effective in spreading their heresy both inside and outside the church.

 

All I have seen from you on the subject of gambling is alotting one aspect to be sinful while excusing the "lesser" as "recreation" and thus permissible in your eyes alone.

Hardcore gamblers addictions don't begin as hardcore. Gambling begins at the "innocency" stage then digresses as more activity increases.

You persistently refuse to see obvious factors that should tell anyone to abstain from all appearances of evil on behalf of all aspects considered to be gambling. I introduced to you it is a snare, you refute with only fleshly wisdom that falls way short of what is known to be precept upon precept.

If an activity ensues to further addictive practice that robs one's self of propriety, moral character, or financial duties to be a provider for the less able, then it is therefore SIN to participate in any degree.

Ray, it is only his private interpretation you have congratulated. A conviction can only be applied to what is known to be sin. And his misuse of the word "legalism" is the fruit of the mental disorder known to be identified as liberalism.

Liberalism places it's self above normal reason and incorporates the flesh as the leading factor in all considerations of Scripture.

One should know the relationship of raising puppies eventually raises full grown dogs. The gambit of simple contests that award in a financial gain offered by your local resturaunt, bingo parlor, lottery, etc. would be the "puppies", but those same littel innocents will have the tendency to become fuill grown dogs. Not to say I belittling dogs of the canine sense, but spiritual dogs.

I won't expect much in favor of my last statement, but that would only prove the disagreables as being more apt to rely on the arm of the flesh as their guide and strength in opposition to the Spirit of God.

 

I am? I can't even recall the last time I gambled.

Yet another pharisaical phrase that you need to repent of. </font>[/QUOTE]You insist? Not, I have nothing to repent. I said that relating to your support of the association principle to identify your addiction.

You may not actively participate in gambling, but you have the addictive gene. One first tries to justify deviant behaviour, and is more likely to fall into that sin by the proneness of approving the behaviour and thus participation soon ensues.

If one abstains from an addiction alltogether, he risks no chance of becoming an addict.

You admit playing the McDonald's monopoly games, and if i were a betting man, and I am not, you can't resist and still have some of the game pieces on your dresser.