Featured genesis 1:1 and creation ex nihilo

This discussion reminded me of a book I haven’t looked at in quite a while.
It’s by Paul Copan and William Lane Craig
Creation out of Nothing, A Biblical, Philosophical, and Scientific Exploration (Baker, 2004, 280 pages)
A very through review of the subject from a wide variety of perspectives.
Includes critical analysis of Hebrew and Greek grammar relating to the topic.
It may interest you.

Rob

 

What does "without form" mean? Do you imagine a planet in space, the surface of which is all ocean? And wouldn't that suggest form?

 

Does it matter?

I am not making light of the topic, but considering the scope of pose and poetry in the Scriptures, is it not better to state with certainty as the Scriptures do:

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.​

Does Genesis 1 give all the details and facts of creation? Of course not!

God left such an abundance undiscovered for humankind to argue over, yet the certainty is that God creates. He did so (Imo) for two reasons: 1) To allow for humans to become so self absorbed as to confirm their foolish minds in darkness, and 2) To allow for believers to be all the more encouraged and certain of the authority and knowledge of the Creator.

He is not haphazard, desperate, nor unskilled, but takes time, takes patience, and demonstrates such intricacy that humankind even in this modern age have yet to reach the full depth of any science, but merely tread on the surface disclosing what we might scratch up.

He did not stop creating but according to Scriptures continues:

1“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2“In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3“If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.​

What I haven't found in Scriptures is if God ever stops creating.

My own opinion (which is worthless) is that He does not, but as the glory of the new heavens and earth radiate His glory, the book closes, and some of us long to know more.

 

I have:

Gen 2:1-2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

 

.....In gen 1:1....earth and the heavens would be better translated as " matter and space".....this distinguishes v.1 from the creation of the planet earth later in Gen. Secondly, Adam's posterity could only use the existing words in Hebrew to describe the universe in the vernacular. Thirdly, then the "formless earth" is not the literal earth.....it is what we know today as "matter, the sum total of all the molecules in the universe that existed but yet....without being organized into patterns and designs.

I might add that when God created light, there is the implication that light moved at infinite speed. This would fill the universe with light from one end to the other. But when God separated light from darkness, He then slowed down the speed of light creating tiny lights in the night sky. The point is we have figurative descriptions or best available understandings of events on these six literal days.

Lastly, we can agree that "bara" in Hebrew means to create from nothing like you say. God spoke all matter and space into existence with His Almighty power. But God created the universe at the speed of thought.

Food for thought.

 

Genesis 1 is also a polemic refuting the creation myths of the surrounding people and empires. All of the details, from a single pre-existing God, to ex nihilo creation, to the reference to water serves to directly refute some critical aspect of all other mythologies. Genesis 1 is God saying to the rest of the ‘gods’ ... “Liar, liar. Pants on fire!”

It is not primarily a ‘scientific’ text. It is first and foremost a theological text conveying important truths about God.

 

The words used are simple ones, land/earth (eretz) and sky/skies (shamaim). Many commentators have expressed that the phrase is a figure of speech, a merism. A merism uses two opposites to form an expression, heaven and earth = everything that is, the universe - although recognize we only began to know how large the universe is in the last 150 years.

God’s authority was vested in the words communicated through the author. It would be irresponsible to add modern scientific meanings to the authorized original communication. It can’t mean to me what it didn’t mean to the original audience.

Rob

 

But plainly, THE WATERS were already in existence.

 

Mesopotamian (Babylonian-Akkadian)

Tiamat was a Babylonian sea-dragon, presumably originating from the Sumerian monster Labbu begot and killed by Enlil. The Enuma Elish describes the events in the universe prior to the creation of a new world order by Marduk. Initially there were the mingled waters of Abzu, the abyss of sweet water, Tiamat, the salt-water ocean, and Mammu, the mists hovering over their surfaces. Abzu and Tiamat were the parents of the first gods, Lahmu and Lahamu; their children were Ansar and Kisar, and grandchildren Enu and Ea. All the commotion made by the young deities greatly annoyed Abzu and Tiamat, who upon the advice of Mammu, decided to destroy them. When Ea learned of their plot, he used his magical powers to thwart it, and perhaps even killed Abzu. The final deliverance, however, was achieved through the son of Ea, Marduk.

According to legend before this deliverance occurred a cosmic war evolved. Timat was sadden by Abzu’s death, and greatly angered. The news reached the other gods that she was making fearsome war preparations which at first dismayed them. Along with her second husband Kingu, and an army of dragon and serpent forms, Tiamat, mother of the gods, aimed at universal destruction. Chaos gripped the world. In an attempt to counteract Tiamat’s terrible threat, Anser proposed that Marduk be appointed divine champion and armed with ‘matchless weapons’ for the terrible battle. This was agreed upon as well as Marduk’s insistence that he be acknowledged first among the gods. With bow and trident, club and net, and an amoury of winds he rode his chariot into the fray. When Tiamat opened her jaws to swallow him Marduk launched a mighty wind right into her mouth, so she could not close it, shot an arrow into her stomach and slew her. He took her followers captive, and fastened upon his own breast the tablets of destiny-the wedding gift of Tiamat to Kingu. Then he sliced her carcass in two halves; out of one he made heaven, from the other he formed earth. On the earth, he formed humankind from the blood of Kingu before returning to his temple in Babylon.


In another version of this legend Tiamat is depicted as a primordial, creation sea-goddess being the power of the ocean waters who begets eleven monsters. She becomes enraged by the death of her first husband now called Apsu, the underground sweet water, is killed by Enki who cooperated with the gods under the leadership of Marduk. In this version Tiamat is reported to have created an exact replica of Apsu, the Esarra. The cosmic battle also is waged and Marduk defeats Tiamat. He then splits her in two, one half becomes the vault of heaven; her eyes become the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates with mountains rising over her head.
​

Cotterell, Arthur, A Dictionary of World Mythology, New York, G. P. Putman’s Sons, 1980. pp. 51-52
Jordan, Michael, Encyclopedia of Gods, New York, Facts On File, Inc. 1993, pp. 260-261

Most critics of the Bible focus on the similarities and accuse the Bible of plagarism. However, if one focuses on the differences, one can see that the One True God is utterly refuting the details of the creation mythos (and therefore of the false gods themselves) of the great Mesopotamian Empires.

Others thought that the primordial WATER was a god who gave birth to the other gods and from which the universe was created by these false gods. The TRUE GOD claims to have already existed before the WATER, that the WATER was nothing and that GOD created everything.

Imagine what Genesis 1 would mean to someone living in Mesopotamia!

 

Relying on more accurate translations, it become evident that the initial creation of the earth an heavens (space) is not mentioned.

Gen 1:1
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --
Gen 1:2
the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
Gen 1:3¶
and God saith, 'Let light be;' and light is.

The first creation mentioned here is light.

We know Satan and others were expelled are reserved into darkness,. There was no darkness in Heaven. A place of darkness had to be created, It is not in Heaven, but here.

From Job 38:7 God speaking to Job ,we know beings were here when light was created by the response mentioned.

So, the creation of the Universe , is not mentioned but we know it had to exist.

What is the creation story the beginning of? The redemption of sinful beings. A place for man, Jesus to be man and one of us.

Heb 2:14
Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --