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Genesis 1-2 - a perfect paradise?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by 4study, Aug 1, 2003.

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  1. 4study

    4study New Member

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    Matt Black,

    You’re right. I’ve misunderstood you. Sorry about that. Now that you’ve explained a little further, I don’t think I’m following you. As in any discussion, terminology comes up along the way that needs to be defined. For instance, I don’t know what you mean by “the Fall” as an “historical event”. I think also we’d have to talk about what we believe “the Fall” is before we could continue.
     
    #41 4study, Aug 7, 2003
  2. 4study

    4study New Member

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    Artimaeus,

    I think preconceived ideas get in the way. It all depends upon your definition of “sin” is and what you believe about “the Fall”.

    My point about “short of the glory of God” is that Adam is completely dependent upon God, regardless of "The Fall".

    Are angels dependent upon God?
     
    #42 4study, Aug 7, 2003
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    The Fall= the sin of Adam and Eve in eating from the Tree of Knowledge in Gen 3. YECers and other Biblical literalists take this to be an actual event in history, approximately 6000 years ago according to many. Prior to this event, Adam and Eve were sinless and able to commune directly with God with no need of a Redeemer or Saviour. Only after the Fall does Jesus become necessary in this theological worldview - to restore, not initiate, that relationship with God.

    My take is a bit different. I agree with you that all, including the pre-Fall Adam and Eve referred to in Gen 1-3, were/ are in need of Jesus ab initio and that the Fall, rather than being some kind of event at a fixed point in human history, is a picture of the state of all of us - we all, at some point in our development, become aware of right and wrong and inevitably choose to do wrong - we sin. We need to be redeemed from this sin, hence the need for a Redeemer. More than that though, although we are created in the image of God, we are lesser tha Him and , as you say, dependent on Him and in need of a Mediator (Jesus), sin or no sin.

    Does that help or hinder??? :eek:

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #43 Matt Black, Aug 8, 2003
  4. 4study

    4study New Member

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    Matt Black,

    Yes, that helps me understand your view.

    I believe the Fall is in the context of a covenant. So "sin" doesn't regard human morals or virtue, rather, it has to do with Adam's error under his responsibilities to the covenant.

    What we've discussed so far regarding Adam's need for a mediator regardless of sin actually has two aspects to it. One with reference to the nature of Creator vs. creature (i.e Adam is created "short of the glory of God") and one with reference to covenant. In covenant relationship, there is also the necessity for a mediator. I believe Adam was created in a covenant relationship with God and thus was dependent upon Christ from the beginning.

    I also believe the Fall is not metaphorical but did occur.
     
    #44 4study, Aug 8, 2003
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