Genetics~Enviornment~Or Both

[annsni]

What do you mean their parents couldn't have raised them well at all? If they couldn't who on Earth now indays can? I can't believe you said that?

Let's see Adam and Eve had direct fellowship with God. Meaning they spoke to God and God spoke to them.

They didn't have all the bad influences of today. TV, Movies, Ungodly Music, Drugs, Alchol, etc. They had a sin nature that was geared towards selfishness and wanting ones own way....but nothing like we have today or even hundreds or thousands of years ago. If you can think of a better upbringing than theirs I'd love to hear about it.

I'm sorry - I didn't type it clearly, I guess - I said that there was a possibility that they did NOT raise their children well - just as there's the chance they DID raise them well. Adam and Eve had direct fellowship with God before the fall but did they when they had their children? Was God still walking with them after they left Eden? I don't think so. Of course they didn't have many of our influences that we have today (they DID have alcohol since that naturally occurs from juice that is left for a bit - it doesn't take long for alcohol to begin to form in juice). What is a better upbringing, IMO, is a family that has the Holy Spirit to guide them and a Savior to redeem us. Yeah, we have a lot of bad things in our world but not all is lost.

Ann

 

[Jim1999]

Adam and Eve were very primitive. They may not have had access to all the vices of to-day, but they had ample knowledge to displease God. We sin, not because we have all the vices. We sin because we are a sinful people, and we will find ways to thwart the plans of God in our lives, as evidenced by the fall. We just make more excuses to-day for doing the wrong things.

Their social graces were limited to survival and finding their way in life. They had every opportunity to do the wrong things, and prolly did. If they could disobey God before the fall, surely that propensity to disobey did not diminish after the fall, and this included socializing their family.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

You can not find one bible verse that says if you raise your kids by these guidelines then they will turn out loving God and others.

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:6

 

[Phillipians121]

Proverbs 22:6 is a good example of misinterpeted scritpure. That if one raises his child in church, teaches him the bible etc. that he can go sow his wild oats but he will eventually come back to the Lord, you can be SURE of that.

There isn't much comfort to a parent who does just that and his child never shows much in the area of spirituality or loving God and the church.

Cain and Abel...Jacob and Esau...Solomon and Absalom. Were raised the same yet one was "good" the other "bad".

Like I before said this verse would apply to the promise that if one trains (a study on the word TRAIN gives it a whole new meaning) a child according to his natural bent (gifts, talents, temperament) that when he is OLD (mature understanding making ones own desisions) he will always have something to fall back on. Doesn't mean he will always walk with the Lord or even be saved for that matter. Just means he has no excuse and cannot depart from the TRUTH that was instilled into him at a young age. He may reject living it, but it will still remain in his heart and mind.

I do not know how many children you have?
I assume more than one and that they are full grown. I also would guess that they all didn't turn out the same.

Too much guilt is placed on good chirstian parents who raised their kids in church and taught them well at home, to end up having one or two go astray. How sad to have that put on ones consciense. God never intended that to be. I heard on the radio many years ago, I believe it was James Dobson's show of one family who had four children. One who was going to christian college, died in a car accident. And her other two sons ended up GAY their daughter was "OK". They shouldn't carry the pain of guilt for what happened or the choices their gay sons made.

You also have the another truth to look at. How about the fact that their are many who were raised by parents who did everything wrong , and yet one or more of their children turned out pretty darn well they love God (even though they were not raised in a christian home) love others, paid their bills, cheated
no one, and have integrety. There was nothing in their past to say see this is why they turned out so good.

 

[Phillipians121]

Answer: Were Adam and Eve saved? The Bible does not specifically tell us whether Adam and Eve were saved. Adam and Eve were the only two human beings who knew about God before they became tainted with sin. As a result, they likely still knew God better after their Fall than any of us do today. Adam and Eve most definitely believed in and depended God. God continued to talk with Adam and Eve and provide for them after the Fall. Adam and Eve knew of God’s promise that He would provide a Savior (Genesis 3:15). God made a garments of skin for Adam and Eve after the Fall (Genesis 3:21). Many scholars understand this as the first animal sacrifice, foreshadowing the eventual death of Christ on the cross for the sins of the world. As a result of these facts, it would seem that Adam and Eve were "saved" and did indeed go to Heaven / Paradise when they died.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Adam-and-Eve-questions.html

 

[Phillipians121]

Explaination of the word TRAIN from a book called "Know your child"

"It's archery language and is painting a picture about the uniqueness of each arrow made by an archer. Each arrow had a unique bent and it was the archer's responsibility to know the bent of each arrow so that when he would shoot the arrow, it would fly straight. We are being instructed to know our children and their unique characteristics well enough to adjust our parenting so that when we shoot them into the world they should fly straight."

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

There are many Christians who have mental illnesses and Satan can oppress us, but he cannot possess us.

We are born with a sin nature, we are not born evil. I do not believe that anyone is born a homosexual, sex offender, etc. Those are choices one makes.

Cain made the choice to kill Abel, he was not born to do that. He let his emotions rule (jealousy, anger, etc.) and the same thing happens today.

Saved people are sinners saved by grace and can have addictions just like lost people. Both make the choice to sin or break free.

The Truth shall set you free ... no matter what your addiction, but you have to allow it.

What does mental illness have to do with the predisposition towards being evil (the topic)? Nothing.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

StraightandNarrow: I know it has nothing to do with it, but you'd be surprised how many Christians attribute mental illness to satanic possession!!!

I do not know how many children you have?
I assume more than one and that they are full grown. I also would guess that they all didn't turn out the same.

I have four grown children and you are correct in assuming they did not all turn out the same, but it was the choices they made that made them different.

Too much guilt is placed on good chirstian parents who raised their kids in church and taught them well at home, to end up having one or two go astray. How sad to have that put on ones consciense. God never intended that to be.

I fully agree with you! I decided a long time ago that I could not take the credit for my children's successes - neither would I take the blame for their failures.

That doesn't mean I did not have the responsibility of trying to raise them right. They were all raised the same. We have the privilege of having these children and the responsibility to raise them right. It will 'take' on some and not on others. I have no idea why, but I cannot bring myself to believe that some are predestined to fail. That would make all our upbringing to naught.

We do our best as parents. The children (when grown) then use their free will to make decisions. We hope and pray that they will make the right choices, but sadly that is not always the case. :tear: