Genuine God-Given Faith

[Martin Marprelate]

in Ephesians 2:8, ". . . saved . . . that . . . the gift . . . ."
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ." It is not saying God is the gift, but the gift is being saved of God's grace is that gift. Some Calvinists want to make the faith which precedes the gift to be that gift.

Putting your own preferred interpretation in bold print does not make it right. The nearest antecedent to 'that' is 'faith,' and therefore it is a reasonable assumption that it is the faith that is the gift of God, though in fact, every aspect of salvation is of God (1 Corinthians 4:7).

 

[kyredneck]

Twaddle

Twaddle

 

[MB]

in Ephesians 2:8, ". . . saved . . . that . . . the gift . . . ."
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ." It is not saying God is the gift, but the gift is being saved of God's grace is that gift. Some Calvinists want to make the faith which precedes the gift to be that gift.

The YLT says it.
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you—of God the gift,
You asked you receive but you can't show me where scripture says babies go to hell.
MB

 

[MB]

in Ephesians 2:8, ". . . saved . . . that . . . the gift . . . ."
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ." It is not saying God is the gift, but the gift is being saved of God's grace is that gift. Some Calvinists want to make the faith which precedes the gift to be that gift.

Don't you have the Spirit of God living inside of you. If so then God is the gift. It's so simple a child could understand it. Yet you stumble over it
Go ahead and call me a heretic if it makes you happy. The YLT makes my day every time though it ruined your's.,
MB

 

[37818]

If so then God is the gift.

I know God. Don't you? Ephesians 2:8 does not say God to be the Gift. But to make the Argument that God is a gift, John 17:3 with Romans 6:23 makes the case. Also noting 1 John 5:9-12.

 

[Van]

No it doesn't. SNIP

Folks, here we have

No it doesn't. 'All those that He has given Me.' The tense is actually Perfect (Dedoken. Check it out), meaning a completed action in the past. Of all those whom the Father has once and for all given to the Lord Jesus before ever time was, He will lose not one. There will be no subsequent review by God the Father to thin down the list to be saved. God forbid!

And now look at the very next verse, John 6:40. Those same people who were given to Christ before the foundation of the world will see Him by the eye of faith and trust in Him and the Father wills that every single one shall have eternal life and Christ will raise every single one up at the last day.

In the future, when God gives someone to Christ, then God will have given Him or her, in the then past.

 

[MB]

I know God. Don't you? Ephesians 2:8 does not say God to be the Gift. But to make the Argument that God is a gift, John 17:3 with Romans 6:23 makes the case. Also noting 1 John 5:9-12.

I see the gift is eternal life although only two of your verses apply to eternal life. The gift certainly isn't faith as you were claiming before.
MB

 

[Van]

Here is the verse (NKJV)

John 6:39
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

1) Does this address those already given, or anyone ever given? Answer - anyone ever given.
2) Does this verse say that anyone has been given (spiritually placed into Christ) at the time Jesus spoke? Nope

What this verse actually says is whenever, past, present or future, God has given an individual to Christ, the Father's will is that Christ will loss none of those given.

Thus John 6:29 does not support election (God giving a person to Christ for salvation) before creation of the entire body of Christ. Calvinism reads that bogus view into the text. Critical reading is a skill apparently in scant supply among the gullible.

 

[37818]

I see the gift is eternal life although only two of your verses apply to eternal life. The gift certainly isn't faith as you were claiming before.
MB

I never claimed "faith" to be "eternal life." through faith yes. But faith does not cause anything. Knowing God, having Christ is to have eternal life, John 17:3, 1 John 5:12, 2 Corinthians 13:5.

 

[Iconoclast]

Here is the verse (NKJV)

John 6:39
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

1) Does this address those already given, or anyone ever given? Answer - anyone ever given.
2) Does this verse say that anyone has been given (spiritually placed into Christ) at the time Jesus spoke? Nope

What this verse actually says is whenever, past, present or future, God has given an individual to Christ, the Father's will is that Christ will loss none of those given.

Thus John 6:29 does not support election (God giving a person to Christ for salvation) before creation of the entire body of Christ. Calvinism reads that bogus view into the text. Critical reading is a skill apparently in scant supply among the gullible.

An intentional false teaching.
perhaps there should be a sci fi forum for such.

 

[Van]

An intentional false teaching.
perhaps there should be a sci fi forum for such.

As predicted, all the advocates of false doctrine offer is "taint so."

Here is the verse (NKJV)

John 6:39
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

1) Does this address those already given, or anyone ever given? Answer - anyone ever given.
2) Does this verse say that anyone has been given (spiritually placed into Christ) at the time Jesus spoke? Nope

What this verse actually says is whenever, past, present or future, God has given an individual to Christ, the Father's will is that Christ will loss none of those given.

Thus John 6:29 does not support election (God giving a person to Christ for salvation) before creation of the entire body of Christ. Calvinism reads that bogus view into the text. Critical reading is a skill apparently in scant supply among the gullible.

 

[MB]

I know God. Don't you? Ephesians 2:8 does not say God to be the Gift. But to make the Argument that God is a gift, John 17:3 with Romans 6:23 makes the case. Also noting 1 John 5:9-12.

A literal translation throws you off doesn't it.
I read a post here awhile back where the writers were claiming the KJV had so many mistakes. They claimed that the KJV was translated by Calvinist. At first I didn't know what to think of this. They discussed the Calvinist adding and taking away from scriptures in the translation of it..
This is the YLT
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you—of God the gift,

This version is taken from the same majority of text. as the KJV The point is the KJV translators appears to have added to this verse
I'm not accusing anyone but Greens interlinear also agrees with it The italics in this verse are two little words " IT IS'
so the average person looks at it and says the gift is faith Even you called faith the gift.

You said;( "Putting your own preferred interpretation in bold print does not make it right. The nearest antecedent to 'that' is 'faith,' and therefore it is a reasonable assumption that it is the faith that is the gift of God, though in fact, every aspect of salvation is of God")

I assumed you were saying you believe that faith is the Gift even though we both know the Gift is" eternal life" Is this not true?
MB

 

[37818]

A literal translation throws you off doesn't it.

No. You seem not to understand some words or phrases the same way I do. "of God" for example. Ephesians 2:8 . . . θεου . . . and Romans 6:23 . . . του θεου . . . ." In both cases what is translated gift is "of" being from God. But God Himself is not being said to be the gift.

 

[37818]

You said;( "Putting your own preferred interpretation in bold print does not make it right. The nearest antecedent to 'that' is 'faith,' and therefore it is a reasonable assumption that it is the faith that is the gift of God, though in fact, every aspect of salvation is of God")

The Greek the "that" refers to "the Gift." referring to "saved." Ephesians 2:8. Those three words are the subject.

τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως
For by grace are ye saved through faith

και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον
and that not of yourselves [it is] the gift of God.

 

[37818]

τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως
For by grace are ye saved through faith

For γαρ
by grace τη . . . χαριτι
are ye εστε
saved σεσωσμενοι
through δια
of faith της πιστεως

και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον
and that not of yourselves [it is] the gift of God.

and και
that τουτο
not ουκ
out of εξ
yourselves υμων
the gift το δωρον
of God. θεου

 

[KenH]

John 6:39
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

"Has" is present tense. Christ is already in possession of these individuals when He said this.

 

[Van]

"Has" is present tense. Christ is already in possession of these individuals when He said this.

John 6:39 does not support election (God giving a person to Christ for salvation) before creation of the entire body of Christ. Calvinism reads that bogus view into the text. Critical reading is a skill apparently in scant supply among the gullible.

The will of God, no matter when, remains the same, for Christ not to lose any that have been given to Him.

John 6:39
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Here is the verse (NKJV)

John 6:39
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

1) Does this address those already given, or anyone ever given? Answer - anyone ever given.
2) Does this verse say that anyone has been given (spiritually placed into Christ) at the time Jesus spoke? Nope

What this verse actually says is whenever, past, present or future, God has given an individual to Christ, the Father's will is that Christ will loss none of those given.

Thus John 6:29 does not support election (God giving a person to Christ for salvation) before creation of the entire body of Christ. Calvinism reads that bogus view into the text. Critical reading is a skill apparently in scant supply among the gullible.

Unbelievable! In every sense of the word. Still, if Van can keep on repeating himself ad nauseam then I suppose I can.

'All those that He has given Me.' The tense is actually Perfect (Dedoken. Check it out), meaning a completed action in the past. Of all those whom the Father has once and for all given to the Lord Jesus before ever time was, He will lose not one.

 

[Van]

Unbelievable! In every sense of the word. Still, if Van can keep on repeating himself ad nauseam then I suppose I can.

'All those that He has given Me.' The tense is actually Perfect (Dedoken. Check it out), meaning a completed action in the past. Of all those whom the Father has once and for all given to the Lord Jesus before ever time was, He will lose not one.

The "taint so parade" marches on, with the band playing "I do not know and I do not care." Is the issue the tense of "given?" Nope. The idea is whenever individuals are given, they will not be lost. So if a person is given in the future, God's will is that those in that group of given individuals, will not be lost.

The inability of some to comprehend the obvious is amazing. So the band plays on...

Has anyone read John 17. And how Jesus prayed for His apostles that their words would result in more believers. The idea that God does not credit the faith of those who believe and place them into Christ in every generation since Christ's death is ludicrous. The scale of biblical nullification is "unbelievable."

 

[KenH]

John 6:39 does not support election (God giving a person to Christ for salvation) before creation of the entire body of Christ.

Sure it does.