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Genuine God-Given Faith
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Here Agedman misrepresents me yet again.
This is all they have folks, generalized false statements calculated to disparage the messengers of truth.
1) Does the biblical view diminish the divine attributes of God? Nope
2) Does the election of Ephesians 1:4 being corporate indicate God cannot elect individuals according to His purpose? Nope
3) Is God "all knowing?" Yes
4) Does Psalm 139 say God knows our thoughts before we have them? Nope It says God knows our words before we formulate them. However His knowledge of us comes from searching us, thus our thoughts or intents are found by a search of us. Thus after we exist.
5) Is God constrained by time? Nope! He declares the end from the beginning.
6) Can man thwart the plan or purpose of God? Nope
7) Could God have chosen the individuals for salvation before they existed? Yes. Did He? Nope
8) Did God have to choose those whose faith He credits as righteous? Nope. Did He? Yes
9) Is our "filthy rag" faith pure? Nope Does God credit the "dirty rag" faith of some individuals, turning a sows ear into a silk purse? Yes
10) Every biblical doctrine is found in scripture, not the rewrites of people.
Thus his entire post presents his usual list of false charges, to disparage me personally. Study God's word, folks:
1) Matthew 13 says people can receive the gospel, teaching total spiritual inability is false doctrine.
2) Matthew 23:13 says some people were entering the kingdom, thus having spiritual ability, yet were prevented from entering, thus their ability did not come from "irresistible grace."
3) Romans 4:23-24 says God credits the faith of some people for their benefit, as those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead.
4) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen for salvation through "faith in the truth." Thus our "benefit" of having our faith credited is to be chosen for salvation and placed spiritually in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
Just read your bible, folks...
1) Does the biblical view diminish the divine attributes of God? Nope
2) Does the election of Ephesians 1:4 being corporate indicate God cannot elect individuals according to His purpose? Nope
3) Is God "all knowing?" Yes
4) Does Psalm 139 say God knows our thoughts before we have them? Nope It says God knows our words before we formulate them. However His knowledge of us comes from searching us, thus our thoughts or intents are found by a search of us. Thus after we exist.
5) Is God constrained by time? Nope! He declares the end from the beginning.
6) Can man thwart the plan or purpose of God? Nope
7) Could God have chosen the individuals for salvation before they existed? Yes. Did He? Nope
8) Did God have to choose those whose faith He credits as righteous? Nope. Did He? Yes
9) Is our "filthy rag" faith pure? Nope Does God credit the "dirty rag" faith of some individuals, turning a sows ear into a silk purse? Yes
10) Every biblical doctrine is found in scripture, not the rewrites of people.
Thus his entire post presents his usual list of false charges, to disparage me personally. Study God's word, folks:
1) Matthew 13 says people can receive the gospel, teaching total spiritual inability is false doctrine.
2) Matthew 23:13 says some people were entering the kingdom, thus having spiritual ability, yet were prevented from entering, thus their ability did not come from "irresistible grace."
3) Romans 4:23-24 says God credits the faith of some people for their benefit, as those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead.
4) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen for salvation through "faith in the truth." Thus our "benefit" of having our faith credited is to be chosen for salvation and placed spiritually in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
Just read your bible, folks...
Dave G
Well-Known Member
God's word teaches that a person is chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).
That is, long before they were born, my friend.
" Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. " (Ephesians 1:1-6).
The fact that they are individuals that make up a body is supported by many passages, Van.
Some of these are:
John 6:37-47. <----- Every one that sees...no man can come...every man that hath heard...
John 6:64-65. <---- No man can come....
John 17:2. <---- As many as....
Romans 8:28-30. <---- For whom He did foreknow.
Acts of the Apostles 13:48. <-------- As many as were ordained to eternal life....( limiting the actual belief of the Gospel to a small audience )
I'm not sure why you don't make the connection, but it is there.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Amen Van, and well said, sir.
That's all I've ever done since roughly 2003, completely ignoring the teachings of men since then.
His word has shown me a great many things... much of which some people call "Calvinism", but I call the truths of Scripture.
It took a while, and I've realized that it will take a while with all of my brothers and sisters.
That's why I encourage them to dig deeply into His words and learn to read His book as the book of letters that it is, and not in "verses"...
As "systematic theologies" really do not go far enough to explain everything that is contained in it, neither can they.
May God bless you in many ways, as always.
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Yet another "copy and post" smokescreed of nonsense.
Does scripture say "a person" is chosen and located within Christ before the foundation of the world. Nope.
1) Who or what is chosen per Ephesians 1:4? "Us" (those saved at the time of Paul's letter.) Is the Greek word translated "us" singular or plural? Plural! Thus God chose a group. Are corporate elections of groups? Yes!
2) John 6:37-47 addresses the individuals that God transfers into Christ. Thus the passage supports the biblical view.
3) Can anyone believe in Jesus is God does not allow it? Nope. For example, Romans 11 where God hardened the hearts of non-believing Jews, preventing them from believing. However, since He had to harden their hearts, they had prior spiritual ability, once again proving "total spiritual inability" is a bogus as a three dollar bill.
]This is all they have folks, generalized false statements calculated to disparage the messengers of truth.
1) Does the biblical view diminish the divine attributes of God? Nope
2) Does the election of Ephesians 1:4 being corporate indicate God cannot elect individuals according to His purpose? Nope
3) Is God "all knowing?" Yes
4) Does Psalm 139 say God knows our thoughts before we have them? Nope It says God knows our words before we formulate them. However His knowledge of us comes from searching us, thus our thoughts or intents are found by a search of us. Thus after we exist.
5) Is God constrained by time? Nope! He declares the end from the beginning.
6) Can man thwart the plan or purpose of God? Nope
7) Could God have chosen the individuals for salvation before they existed? Yes. Did He? Nope
8) Did God have to choose those whose faith He credits as righteous? Nope. Did He? Yes
9) Is our "filthy rag" faith pure? Nope Does God credit the "dirty rag" faith of some individuals, turning a sows ear into a silk purse? Yes
10) Every biblical doctrine is found in scripture, not the rewrites of people.
Thus his entire post presents his usual list of false charges, to disparage me personally. Study God's word, folks:
1) Matthew 13 says people can receive the gospel, teaching total spiritual inability is false doctrine.
2) Matthew 23:13 says some people were entering the kingdom, thus having spiritual ability, yet were prevented from entering, thus their ability did not come from "irresistible grace."
3) Romans 4:23-24 says God credits the faith of some people for their benefit, as those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead.
4) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen for salvation through "faith in the truth." Thus our "benefit" of having our faith credited is to be chosen for salvation and placed spiritually in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
Just read your bible, folks...
1) Does the biblical view diminish the divine attributes of God? Nope
2) Does the election of Ephesians 1:4 being corporate indicate God cannot elect individuals according to His purpose? Nope
3) Is God "all knowing?" Yes
4) Does Psalm 139 say God knows our thoughts before we have them? Nope It says God knows our words before we formulate them. However His knowledge of us comes from searching us, thus our thoughts or intents are found by a search of us. Thus after we exist.
5) Is God constrained by time? Nope! He declares the end from the beginning.
6) Can man thwart the plan or purpose of God? Nope
7) Could God have chosen the individuals for salvation before they existed? Yes. Did He? Nope
8) Did God have to choose those whose faith He credits as righteous? Nope. Did He? Yes
9) Is our "filthy rag" faith pure? Nope Does God credit the "dirty rag" faith of some individuals, turning a sows ear into a silk purse? Yes
10) Every biblical doctrine is found in scripture, not the rewrites of people.
Thus his entire post presents his usual list of false charges, to disparage me personally. Study God's word, folks:
1) Matthew 13 says people can receive the gospel, teaching total spiritual inability is false doctrine.
2) Matthew 23:13 says some people were entering the kingdom, thus having spiritual ability, yet were prevented from entering, thus their ability did not come from "irresistible grace."
3) Romans 4:23-24 says God credits the faith of some people for their benefit, as those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead.
4) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen for salvation through "faith in the truth." Thus our "benefit" of having our faith credited is to be chosen for salvation and placed spiritually in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
Just read your bible, folks...
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Van,
Please stop disparaging people who disagree with you, by making comments that accuse them of being purposefully misleading or engaging in smokescreen tactics in order to spread disinformation.
It is hypocritical to complain about how people treat you, when you turn right around and treat people the same way.
If you are unable to see that the way you treat people who disagree with you is exactly as some people here treat you, then perhaps you should refrain from posting...
As it seems to me that you have a problem with treating others the same way that you would have them treat you.
Stop changing the subject to my behavioir. You are the copy and poster!
Does scripture say "a person" is chosen and located within Christ before the foundation of the world. Nope.
1) Who or what is chosen per Ephesians 1:4? "Us" (those saved at the time of Paul's letter.) Is the Greek word translated "us" singular or plural? Plural! Thus God chose a group. Are corporate elections of groups? Yes!
2) John 6:37-47 addresses the individuals that God transfers into Christ. Thus the passage supports the biblical view.
3) Can anyone believe in Jesus if God does not allow it? Nope. For example, Romans 11 where God hardened the hearts of non-believing Jews, preventing them from believing. However, since He had to harden their hearts, they had prior spiritual ability, once again proving "total spiritual inability" is a bogus as a three dollar bill.
Were the biblical points made addressed or ignored? Ignored!
Does scripture say "a person" is chosen and located within Christ before the foundation of the world. Nope.
1) Who or what is chosen per Ephesians 1:4? "Us" (those saved at the time of Paul's letter.) Is the Greek word translated "us" singular or plural? Plural! Thus God chose a group. Are corporate elections of groups? Yes!
2) John 6:37-47 addresses the individuals that God transfers into Christ. Thus the passage supports the biblical view.
3) Can anyone believe in Jesus if God does not allow it? Nope. For example, Romans 11 where God hardened the hearts of non-believing Jews, preventing them from believing. However, since He had to harden their hearts, they had prior spiritual ability, once again proving "total spiritual inability" is a bogus as a three dollar bill.
Since you're such an expert on what scripture says prove what you believe about total depravity.Your philosophy is not scripture.
MB
Promises
MB
I don't deny Salvation is of the Lord. I just deny your interpretation of it God does not force Salvation on any one.
MB
This is very disparaging that you would deny the truth
MB
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Not only that, but Rebekah's children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad --- in order that God's purpose in election might stand : not by works but by him who calls --she was told, "The older will serve the younger." Just as it is written : "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." (Romans 9:10:13)
Among the false doctrines that Van promotes --God doesn't have to do a search of us after we are born. He determines things long before we exist. Van, you need to prayerfully review the verses I cited here.
And for you be consistent, you would have to deny biblical prophecy. God spoke sometimes centuries before event and the people concerning the events took place. God didn't have to launch a search of their intentions after they were born.
I said, if you are consistent --consistently wrong.
Among the false doctrines that Van promotes --God doesn't have to do a search of us after we are born. He determines things long before we exist. Van, you need to prayerfully review the verses I cited here.
And for you be consistent, you would have to deny biblical prophecy. God spoke sometimes centuries before event and the people concerning the events took place. God didn't have to launch a search of their intentions after they were born.
I said, if you are consistent --consistently wrong.