Genuinely saved?

[RLBosley]

I have two real life scenarios for you all to consider please;

1. A young boy (6Years old) makes a profession of faith in tears and continues in his church until college. At college he gets caught up in sin and becomes an agnostic, saying that he isn't sure that God is really knowable.

2. A young boy (6 Years old) makes a profession of faith and continues in church until his teens when he rebels against faith and his parents. He never stops believing in God, but lives in outright rebellion. Eventually his lifestyle cathces up to him, he repents comes back to the church eventually goes to bible college and becomes a pastor.

Now, was boy 1 genuinely saved, even though he has absolutley no fruit to show for it and is borderline on saying God doesn't even exist?

And was boy 2 saved at his first confession of faith as a child then fell into rebellion as a 'carnal Christian' or was he not really saved until he 'got right with God' after his rebellion?

Thoughts?

 

[agedman]

I have two real life scenarios for you all to consider please;

1. A young boy (6Years old) makes a profession of faith in tears and continues in his church until college. At college he gets caught up in sin and becomes an agnostic, saying that he isn't sure that God is really knowable.

2. A young boy (6 Years old) makes a profession of faith and continues in church until his teens when he rebels against faith and his parents. He never stops believing in God, but lives in outright rebellion. Eventually his lifestyle cathces up to him, he repents comes back to the church eventually goes to bible college and becomes a pastor.

Now, was boy 1 genuinely saved, even though he has absolutley no fruit to show for it and is borderline on saying God doesn't even exist?

And was boy 2 saved at his first confession of faith as a child then fell into rebellion as a 'carnal Christian' or was he not really saved until he 'got right with God' after his rebellion?

Thoughts?

Only God knows the heart as to who is saved in your anecdote(s).

Some may look upon the first and claim "by their fruits..." but that would have also been true of the second for a time.

Some may look upon them both and claim there was no following of the commandments, therefore no salvation.

Some may say (as I would consider) that not enough information is given.

Why did the second person return? family, peers, circumstances, bargaining with God ... there could be a great number of factors that would influence a return with no salvation.

Why did the first get swayed in college? Did that person not have the Holy Spirit to guide him into all truth? Was that person raised in shallow earth? Is that person a philosophical / mental Jonah trying to escape the claim on their life?

Not enough information to make a firm decision that really isn't ours to make, anyway.

 

[TadQueasy]

Tough calls. I would say no one really knows on Boy 1. But if he is, he will eventually repent and return to the Lord. I would also say Boy 2 was saved at his first confession of faith and that was the reason why he repented later in life of his sinful acts of rebellion.

 

[Greektim]

I have two real life scenarios for you all to consider please;

1. A young boy (6Years old) makes a profession of faith in tears and continues in his church until college. At college he gets caught up in sin and becomes an agnostic, saying that he isn't sure that God is really knowable.

2. A young boy (6 Years old) makes a profession of faith and continues in church until his teens when he rebels against faith and his parents. He never stops believing in God, but lives in outright rebellion. Eventually his lifestyle cathces up to him, he repents comes back to the church eventually goes to bible college and becomes a pastor.

Now, was boy 1 genuinely saved, even though he has absolutley no fruit to show for it and is borderline on saying God doesn't even exist?

And was boy 2 saved at his first confession of faith as a child then fell into rebellion as a 'carnal Christian' or was he not really saved until he 'got right with God' after his rebellion?

Thoughts?

Boy 2 was me. And I wasn't "saved" until repentance. My boyhood confession was nothing (it was 5 for me not 6). I lived in complete sin even though I heard the gospel and professed to be a Christian. How I fooled everyone, even myself. It was not until God regenerated my heart and granted me repentance that I was saved at 19. Then I went to Bible college (and grad school) and became a pastor (and continue on working on post-grad degrees).


Are you stalking me????


My past makes me praise the Lord for his grace all the more!

 

[RLBosley]

Why did the second person return? family, peers, circumstances, bargaining with God ... there could be a great number of factors that would influence a return with no salvation.

The second returned because, as he tells it, God got a hold of him by allowing him to almost die in a very bad car wreck (He still walks with a limp 20+years later) and showing him that he needed to submit to God and become a pastor.

Why did the first get swayed in college? Did that person not have the Holy Spirit to guide him into all truth? Was that person raised in shallow earth? Is that person a philosophical / mental Jonah trying to escape the claim on their life?

Honestly I have no idea. I only heard of this guy second hand, and even the person through which the information came, hasn't talked to him in 15+ years.

Tough calls. I would say no one really knows on Boy 1. But if he is, he will eventually repent and return to the Lord. I would also say Boy 2 was saved at his first confession of faith and that was the reason why he repented later in life of his sinful acts of rebellion.

Ok, but what if he never repents? Does that mean his confession of Christ wasn't genuine or that we can confess Jesus as Lord then live in total dispbedience for the rest of our life? I'm honestly not sure what I think, that's why i'm putting this out here for everyone else's thoughts.

Are you stalking me????

Of course not....:saint:
BTW, the new curtains.. :thumbs:

 

[TadQueasy]

Ok, but what if he never repents? Does that mean his confession of Christ wasn't genuine or that we can confess Jesus as Lord then live in total dispbedience for the rest of our life? I'm honestly not sure what I think, that's why i'm putting this out here for everyone else's thoughts.

I would say if he never repents then he was never genuinely saved. It is an extremely tough call and like I said I do not think anyone really knows.

 

[agedman]

The second returned because, as he tells it, God got a hold of him by allowing him to almost die in a very bad car wreck (He still walks with a limp 20+years later) and showing him that he needed to submit to God and become a pastor.

God will work in any area He chooses to bring His sheep into compliance - even breaking a lamb leg.

Ok, but what if he never repents? Does that mean his confession of Christ wasn't genuine or that we can confess Jesus as Lord then live in total dispbedience for the rest of our life? I'm honestly not sure what I think, that's why i'm putting this out here for everyone else's thoughts.

John tells us that the believer cannot live a life of practicing sin and not have rebuke, and those who do live unrebuked are not believers.

Paul talks of those believers who took of the Lord's table unworthy (which some take as known unconfessed sin) were sickly and some had died.

The believer has Holy Spirit as actually part of that person, that person will display the fruits of that Spirit.

Based upon that teaching, I would consider it probable that the person is not saved if there has been no rebuke (other than is common with any sinful behavior) that has been brought by the Holy Spirit upon that person.

But, again, only the Lord knows the heart of who is and isn't truly saved.

 

[Greektim]

Of course not....:saint:
BTW, the new curtains.. :thumbs:

That made me laugh...

Actually, my wife and I are talking about making new curtains. So you were almost right. Freakish!

 

[freeatlast]

I have two real life scenarios for you all to consider please;

1. A young boy (6Years old) makes a profession of faith in tears and continues in his church until college. At college he gets caught up in sin and becomes an agnostic, saying that he isn't sure that God is really knowable.

2. A young boy (6 Years old) makes a profession of faith and continues in church until his teens when he rebels against faith and his parents. He never stops believing in God, but lives in outright rebellion. Eventually his lifestyle cathces up to him, he repents comes back to the church eventually goes to bible college and becomes a pastor.

Now, was boy 1 genuinely saved, even though he has absolutley no fruit to show for it and is borderline on saying God doesn't even exist?

And was boy 2 saved at his first confession of faith as a child then fell into rebellion as a 'carnal Christian' or was he not really saved until he 'got right with God' after his rebellion?

Thoughts?

Boy one was never saved according to scripture.
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Boy two was not saved at (6 years old) , according to the bible, but may have become saved when he repented.
1John 3:7-10
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot practice sinning because he has been born of God.
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

 

[humblethinker]

Boy 2 was me. And I wasn't "saved" until repentance. My boyhood confession was nothing (it was 5 for me not 6). I lived in complete sin even though I heard the gospel and professed to be a Christian. How I fooled everyone, even myself. It was not until God regenerated my heart and granted me repentance that I was saved at 19.

Could it be the case that you've fooled yourself again, just in a different way?

 

[Tom Butler]

But, again, only the Lord knows the heart of who is and isn't truly saved.

And he has told us to be fruit inspectors so we can know, too.
Matthew 7:15

You shall know them by their fruits.

I John 2:19

They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

[Greektim]

Could it be the case that you've fooled yourself again, just in a different way?

I can give you an existential, experiential answer or a theological one. Which would you prefer?