poncho
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to get uppity FTR and I apologize for doing so. I try to be calm believe me I do! But when I see this government federalizing an already militarized state and local police/firefighters, rescue agencies and militia forces, giving multinational militaries and mercenaries police power CONUS, systematic disarmament of law abiding citizens, the influx of millions of illegals of indistinct backgrounds I see the gapping jaws of tyranny staring me in the face I find it alittle bizzaro that most people find it somewhat complex yes but otherwise entirely normal.
I dunno honestly, maybe I watched to many westerns as a kid. In those the good guys wore white hats and always gave the other feller a chance to draw first, now they wear black masks carry sub machine guns run in packs that can shoot first and cover it up later.
If you'll accept my apology and thanks for this discussion I will exuse myself from it take a few deep breaths go jump in my boat and scout for the presence of troops along the Rubicon.
I dunno honestly, maybe I watched to many westerns as a kid. In those the good guys wore white hats and always gave the other feller a chance to draw first, now they wear black masks carry sub machine guns run in packs that can shoot first and cover it up later.
If you'll accept my apology and thanks for this discussion I will exuse myself from it take a few deep breaths go jump in my boat and scout for the presence of troops along the Rubicon.
), but it has become a real joy crossing swords with each other because of the respect and friendship we bring into the battle. What's really neat about debating with him is that we're both (I think I speak for him too) considerate not to offend the other and because we know the other comes into debate with that spirit we just don't take offense at the other. My hope is that despite our differences, poncho, we get to that point. I truly respect you and your position. I disagree with it sometimes, but I know it is born out of a furious love of liberty and the Constitution. There are times it may not seem like it, but I assure you we share that devotion. I deeply love this country and the flag (and wear its uniform both proudly and humbly if that makes sense), but I believe that because we are special in the values that are truly American and because our strength makes us a superpower by definition, we should not shy from defending those principles and those ideals. To me, the US military is a noble institution and calling (I'm not saying you don't, I'm just explaining my own position). One of the reasons I so honor our military is that so many lives have been devoted to and lost defending not just American liberty but that Americans have given their lives to bring freedom to others. That is a realization that gives me goose bumps. Ronald Reagan told the story more than once of the Vietnamese boat person, looking up from a barely seaworthy "boat" to see the USS Enterprise and calling up to the sailors on deck, "Hey, freedom man." To me, American power is not an evil thing in itself but is far more often than not, a force for freedom to others. Robert Kagan tells of Henry Kissinger (of whom I'm certainly no fan) asking an aging Harry Truman how he wanted to be remembered, and that Truman answered that America had completely defeated her enemies, made them surrender, rebuilt their countries and brought democratic government back to them, and brought them into the community of nations. "Only American could do that" he said. To me, a crucial addition he could have said was that only America would do that. And, poncho, please understand that to the extent that you may differ with me on any of the above I don't think you don't love America. I also treasure our freedom because I have read the Founders, several volumes of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Hamilton, many others, Federalists and anti-Federalists, and yes, their sources, including Algernon Sidney, Edmund Burke, and John Locke. They had a profound understanding of human nature and government. And, BTW, as I know you know, they often differed on the right way to govern, but they certainly agreed, I believe, on the essentials.