Gifts of the Spirit have ceased?????????

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Don:
Actually, MEE, I know for a fact that it's you and Oneness that aren't understanding.

What Sularis described was similar to Acts 2. What you and Oneness have described was "babbling."

Now, Brian, you disappoint me greatly. You're apparently not even familiar with the different gifts described.

I'm going to tell you something that I've told you before: You've learned more just by posting on this board than you have from your Oneness Pentecostal church. That tells me that your church is basing its doctrine on feelings, and wants you to base your christianity on feelings, rather than actual study of the Word.

Think on it for a while. Pray about it.

Don I have learned more on this board than I did in High School. What does that Prove. I dont get every thing at Church and I dont get everything from the Board. You have shown me things on this board that I did not know about the bible but My Pastor My youth Pastor, Friends of the Faith, have shown me the importance of being born of the water and the Spirit. Which you can not show me according to the trinitarian doctrine. And I really appreciate the oppertunity to discuss the word of God with You Don, and Lorelie. You have shown me things and I have shown you things. Wether you admit it or not.

Are you now mocking the spiritual gifts? Do you have access to a list that details which are gifts of helps and which are not? Would you please share from your unlimited knowledge of scripture to tell us which is which?

It is funny how we are not allowed to question your gift of tongues, because it is so real to you, yet you easily mock the gift of another without any scriptural basis to do so. Why are you able to do this? Is this the "spiritual" behavior one can expect when one is gifted with the Spirit? I would surely hope not!

~Lorelei

Ok Lorelie you want to know where i find in scripture what helps are gift and which ones are not. You show me the same thing.

The reason why I would say that helping someone move would be more along the lines of fruits would b/c the bible tells us to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Everyone should pitch in and lend a helping hand if their brother or sister needed you. B/c one day you may be the one that needs the Help.

I would help anyone of my friends move b/c I love them and I might need their help one day.

GOd bless

 

[Briguy]

Oneness wrote:

So what you are saying is, if someone had the "Gift of Tongues" He could use it whenever he wanted? That means all he had to do was go To the streets of a diffrent contry and speak in tongues just b/c he wanted to. That is not scipture.

Do you think if some one had the gift of prophesy he could stand up and prophesy anytime he wanted? Why did the prophets have to wait on God?

To the first question, Yes. If a person chooses to use their gift wrongly they could. Hopefully one lead by the Lord would use their gift/s properly (i.e. to edify the body) You seem to have missed my point that the gifts are ours to use when we want. Look at "goverments" or "administrations" depending on translation. Do you think that those who are gifted to watch over the finances of a church can only do so when God gives them power at a certain time? That is just silly and if that gift works that way they all do, that is common sense.

Someone can prophesy anytime they want because prophesy in Greek means "to speak before" (meaning "in front of" - not before something happens, it is not future telling, but simply speaking before others.)

Thanks for the support Lorelie

In Christ, Brian

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by ONENESS:
but My Pastor My youth Pastor, Friends of the Faith, have shown me the importance of being born of the water and the Spirit. Which you can not show me according to the trinitarian doctrine.

They are showing you what they consider important. What they should be doing is proving what they are doing is Biblical. The equipping doesn't come by the Spirit alone.

2 Timothy 3:16All Scripture is God­breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

It's like you think the Word of God isn't necessary because you have the Spirit of God, but the Spirit of God tells you to Study His Word, it tells you not to believe every gospel and it tells you to test the Spirits. It doesn't expect you to throw out the Bible if it doesn't fit your experience. It never ever tells you that.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Ok Lorelie you want to know where i find in scripture what helps are gift and which ones are not. You show me the same thing.

I showed you where the gift of helps is mentioned biblically, it is you that seem to act as if you can decide which gift is or is not a spiritual one.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
The reason why I would say that helping someone move would be more along the lines of fruits would b/c the bible tells us to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

It sure does, but it also says that there is a gift of helps. I am glad you find it to be a fruit, but the BIBLE calls one of the gifts of the Spirit helps. Now, shall I go with what you say or what the Bible says? Do you see a problem with your reasoning at all? Again, you want to ignore the word helps in the 28th verse of the 12th chapter of 1 Corinthians? WHY?

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Everyone should pitch in and lend a helping hand if their brother or sister needed you. B/c one day you may be the one that needs the Help.

I would help anyone of my friends move b/c I love them and I might need their help one day.

Everyone should help one another, but some of us have a gift that is helps. Maybe some of us help those who are not our friends. Maybe some of us find ways to use our gift of helping someone as a way to witness to them about the love of Christ. Maybe some of us don't help because someday we may need help too, maybe we do it out of the love that the Spirit has given us for others. Maybe you don't understand the gift of helps at all, maybe you don't understand any of the gifts as they are taught in the Bible.

~Lorelei

 

[Don]

Lorelei,

Thank you. Your first paragraph says it all.

Brian,

Your response to me only saddens me that much further.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby

Are you a newborn babe, who only desires milk? Or are you growing, and getting past the milk, and getting into the meat?

You ask Lorelei to show you the gift of help, and she did; then you turn around, and in your own words, say "Ok Lorelie you want to know where i find in scripture what helps are gift and which ones are not. You show me the same thing."

Guess what that proves? That you don't even know where to find the gifts of the Spirit.

If you did, you'd list them for us. From all three references, not just 1 Corinthians 12. I issued this challenge to MEE as well; I'm waiting for either or both of you to show me that you can at least put some meat in your mouths, much less chew on it.

 

[DHK]

THE GREAT COMMISSION
Mat.28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Order of Importance of Gifts
1Cor.12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Paul sets forth the gifts of the spirit in order of importance: first, secondarily, thirdly, and last of is mentioned tongues. It was the least important of all the gifts. Think how valuable a gift this would have been in light of the great commission, where the Apostles and others were scattered to other nations of other languages. To easily preach the gospel in another language without study would be one of the greatest benefits to a missionary. The Apostle Thomas is said to have gone to India. There is no evidence that he was given the miraculous gift of tongues to speak to the native people there. Most have to learn the language of the nation that they are sent to. Tongues were a sign to the unbelieving Jew.
DHK

 

[MEE]

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby

Are you a newborn babe, who only desires milk? Or are you growing, and getting past the milk, and getting into the meat?

I'll answer that in Brian's place. Yes, he is a "newborn babe." At least he is out of the
"womb." That is more than I can say for the others on this board. Take that anyway you want!

Yes, he is growing and is past the milk stage. He has handed you all meat, but you refuse to eat, because of the lack of understanding of the WORD!

All of you remind me of a bunch of Pharisees pouncing on a little one that belongs to the Lord, which is more than I can say of any of you.
There is hope, if all of you would pray about what Brian has tried to tell you.

Brian, you can stay and debate, if you want, but if I were you I'd go where I could do some good. All of this is like a dog chasing it's tail. The same questions and the same answers and they still won't try to understand anything in the Word.

Carol

 

[Chemnitz]

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby

Are you a newborn babe, who only desires milk? Or are you growing, and getting past the milk, and getting into the meat?

I'll answer that in Brian's place. Yes, he is a "newborn babe." At least he is out of the
"womb." That is more than I can say for the others on this board. Take that anyway you want!

Yes, he is growing and is past the milk stage. He has handed you all meat, but you refuse to eat, because of the lack of understanding of the WORD!

All of you remind me of a bunch of Pharisees pouncing on a little one that belongs to the Lord, which is more than I can say of any of you.
There is hope, if all of you would pray about what Brian has tried to tell you.

Brian, you can stay and debate, if you want, but if I were you I'd go where I could do some good. All of this is like a dog chasing it's tail. The same questions and the same answers and they still won't try to understand anything in the Word.

Carol

Folks i guess we have just been insulted.

If you call what he has handed us meat, then you ought to sue the butcher cause he gave you some rotten meat.

 

[Don]

Again:

BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!

MEE, you didn't give us the scriptures that list the gifts--which gives us the obvious conclusion that you don't know where they are.

You respond that Brian has given us stuff that we need to pray about? Ditto right back atcha. Lorelei has indicated that she's spent at least the last four years on this subject, and I know I've spent the last four years as well, including writing several dissertations and papers on it.

I've studied every single verse in both the Old and New Testament concerning the words "tongue," "tongues," "language," and "languages"; and I've also looked at every passage where someone talks to an angel, or an angel talks to them.

Can you say the same? Or is your only source of study on the subject a couple of chapters in Acts and 1st Corinthians?

Stick around; we'll get you chewing yet....

 

[Don]

TO ALL:

If it seems as if I'm coming across somewhat harsh on this subject, it's intentional.

I dislike when someone throws out a verse or two from Acts or 1st Corinthians, and claims sovereign authority on its meaning. They're shown that their interpretation is not necessarily correct, but they come back with the same verses, still claiming authority.

I dislike proving to someone that they haven't been taught, and yet they hold onto their "experience" and/or "feelings" over actual scriptural teaching.

I dislike issuing challenges, and getting blown off. It only proves that I was right to begin with, but then it's indicated that I haven't "prayed enough" or maybe I'm just not understanding what the individual is saying.

I dislike being told that I take things out of context, without any indication of what I took out of context or how I took it out of context. It reeks of someone who has built their house on sandy ground.

When children act up or misbehave, we don't close our eyes to it. We take them firmly by the hand, and we correct the behavior.

 

[Lorelei]

MEE,

If you are praying and during that prayer time you have a revelation and that revelation turns out to contradict the Word of God, then you aren't praying to the right One.

~Lorelei

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Don:
Lorelei,

Thank you. Your first paragraph says it all.

Brian,

Your response to me only saddens me that much further.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby

Are you a newborn babe, who only desires milk? Or are you growing, and getting past the milk, and getting into the meat?

You ask Lorelei to show you the gift of help, and she did; then you turn around, and in your own words, say "Ok Lorelie you want to know where i find in scripture what helps are gift and which ones are not. You show me the same thing."

Guess what that proves? That you don't even know where to find the gifts of the Spirit.

If you did, you'd list them for us. From all three references, not just 1 Corinthians 12. I issued this challenge to MEE as well; I'm waiting for either or both of you to show me that you can at least put some meat in your mouths, much less chew on it.

You ask Lorelei to show you the gift of help, and she did; then you turn around, and in your own words, say "Ok Lorelie you want to know where i find in scripture what helps are gift and which ones are not. You show me the same thing."

I was not asking her to show me if Help was a gift or not. I understand that it is. She asked me to give her proof Why I thought the Context of helping someone move was not the gift of Help.

So I tryed to explain to her Why I thought that the example that Briguy gave would not be considered the gift of Help.

I think you misunderstood me.

Sorry

 

[Don]

And that, my friend, is entirely possible.

In the meantime, I'm still waiting for either you or MEE, or both of you, to step up to the challenge I issued.

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
but My Pastor My youth Pastor, Friends of the Faith, have shown me the importance of being born of the water and the Spirit. Which you can not show me according to the trinitarian doctrine.

They are showing you what they consider important. What they should be doing is proving what they are doing is Biblical. The equipping doesn't come by the Spirit alone.

2 Timothy 3:16All Scripture is God­breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

It's like you think the Word of God isn't necessary because you have the Spirit of God, but the Spirit of God tells you to Study His Word, it tells you not to believe every gospel and it tells you to test the Spirits. It doesn't expect you to throw out the Bible if it doesn't fit your experience. It never ever tells you that.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Ok Lorelie you want to know where i find in scripture what helps are gift and which ones are not. You show me the same thing.

I showed you where the gift of helps is mentioned biblically, it is you that seem to act as if you can decide which gift is or is not a spiritual one.

Originally posted by ONENESS:
The reason why I would say that helping someone move would be more along the lines of fruits would b/c the bible tells us to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

It sure does, but it also says that there is a gift of helps. I am glad you find it to be a fruit, but the BIBLE calls one of the gifts of the Spirit helps. Now, shall I go with what you say or what the Bible says? Do you see a problem with your reasoning at all? Again, you want to ignore the word helps in the 28th verse of the 12th chapter of 1 Corinthians? WHY?

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Everyone should pitch in and lend a helping hand if their brother or sister needed you. B/c one day you may be the one that needs the Help.

I would help anyone of my friends move b/c I love them and I might need their help one day.

Everyone should help one another, but some of us have a gift that is helps. Maybe some of us help those who are not our friends. Maybe some of us find ways to use our gift of helping someone as a way to witness to them about the love of Christ. Maybe some of us don't help because someday we may need help too, maybe we do it out of the love that the Spirit has given us for others. Maybe you don't understand the gift of helps at all, maybe you don't understand any of the gifts as they are taught in the Bible.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]

They are showing you what they consider important. What they should be doing is proving what they are doing is Biblical. The equipping doesn't come by the Spirit alone.

No they are showing me what Jesus Considered important.

JOhn 3:5 Vairly varily I say unto you except you be born of the Water and the Spirit you cannot Enter the Kingdom Of God.

And they have proved it time and time again

It's like you think the Word of God isn't necessary because you have the Spirit of God, but the Spirit of God tells you to Study His Word,

Who said that? The word of God is the most important thing One has. I study his word daily.

it tells you not to believe every gospel and it tells you to test the Spirits. It doesn't expect you to throw out the Bible if it doesn't fit your experience. It never ever tells you that.

That is why I am not baptist anymore, No baptist ever showed me that You had to repent and be baptized in the Name of Jesus and No baptist every showed me about the promise of the HOly Spirit.

If you guys would look at John 3, Then look at Matt28:19, Luke 24:45-49, then Acts 2:38 and then all the examples in Acts you will see how Acts 2:38 is the New Birth Plan. And everyone in the Book of Acts was experienceing the New Birth.

We teach nothing diffrent. We teach repentance, We baptize in the Name of Jesus, And we teach the infilling of the HOly Ghost.

I showed you where the gift of helps is mentioned biblically, it is you that seem to act as if you can decide which gift is or is not a spiritual one.

Lets just forget about this one its been a big misunderstanding

It sure does, but it also says that there is a gift of helps. I am glad you find it to be a fruit, but the BIBLE calls one of the gifts of the Spirit helps. Now, shall I go with what you say or what the Bible says? Do you see a problem with your reasoning at all? Again, you want to ignore the word helps in the 28th verse of the 12th chapter of 1 Corinthians? WHY?

Nevermind, we both went in two oppisite directions on this subject.

Everyone should help one another, but some of us have a gift that is helps. Maybe some of us help those who are not our friends. Maybe some of us find ways to use our gift of helping someone as a way to witness to them about the love of Christ. Maybe some of us don't help because someday we may need help too, maybe we do it out of the love that the Spirit has given us for others. Maybe you don't understand the gift of helps at all, maybe you don't understand any of the gifts as they are taught in the Bible.

Maybe I dont undertand the gifts in the Bible according to the way you pose them. For the most part we see eye to eye on most of the gifts except the biggest Gift of all. And that is The gift of the Holy Spirit. YOu have to have this Gift before you can have the rest.

God Bless

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Don:
And that, my friend, is entirely possible.

In the meantime, I'm still waiting for either you or MEE, or both of you, to step up to the challenge I issued.

What Challange

Is this pertaining to the question you asked on pg 1 about Acts 8?

Be back tomorrow

 

[DHK]

The gifts of the Spirit as recorded in 1 Corinthians 12 were supernatural gifts for that day and age. They ceased at the end of the first century. If that wasn't so please describe to me how helping someone move is a gift of helps. It is helping to be sure, something any one of us can do. But how does it become a gift, and in particular a supernatural gift of the Spirit. What is so supernatural about helping someone to move??
DHK

 

[Don]

DHK, best to drop that one.

Brian, my challenge to list the gifts from their three different references--and now that MEE seems to have bowed out, it's up to you to show us that the Oneness Apostolics are actually giving you meat, rather than just catering to your "feelings"....

Oh, and if the Baptists you previously associated with didn't show you any of those things you mentioned--for that, I'm truly sorry. But just like Pentecostals and Mormons and Catholics and Buddhists and yes, Baptists, there's a few bad seeds in every group.

 

[Sularis]

So let me get this straight

I experienced not the gift of tongues or interpretation - in that I spoke in my language, and they heard their language - they spoke in theirs, but I heard mine.

There denial this is the gift of tongues but rather a limited miracle.

Fine let's go through the list of what Ive experienced, or I can personally vouch for.

First I've directly heard a voice "in words" tell me what to do in order to witness to an unbeliever; the child later was heard praying, and became a believer.

In specific - the words I heard "You and he are now the same; Talk to him of God, and His love"

At my old church - they didnt believe in dinosaurs - I "prophesied" that they would change their minds, and repent of their foolishness, but that they would never apologize to me.

They fulfilled that prophecy to the letter. Heck several times they left me behind at places. I was not treated well

I spoke of various things of which I could have had no knowledge concerning the personal lives and events in other people's lives.

Again personal experience on a missions trip, different one than the tongues. I laid hands on a sick team member, and prayed, and she was healed

A man driven by rage beat a man into the ground, then trying to control his rage walked off, but turned cursing and swearing and started to walk back to do more damage to the crippled man, a friend told me she had to go down into the street. She did and simply said to the man as he started to pass her house on the way back to the man lying on the street: "Jesus loves you". He then collapsed on to the ground.

The gifts were to pass away when that which is perfect is come. People state that that is Scripture. I state that it is Jesus the TRUE Word of God.

 

[Don]

Question is, Sul: Who were you directing that post to?

 

[panza1_99]

i have just one question for all. have any of you recieved a gift of the spirit from the Lord?
I can tell you that i was prophecized over and given the gift of a Deacon [ this would fall under ministry of helps ]. the gifts of the spirit are in use today!!!!!...Thank You Jesus!!!!

 

[Don]

Question, panza: The word "deacon" is found in Phillipians 1:1, and 1 Timothy 3:8, 10, 12, and 13.

What does the orignal Greek word mean? And where else is it used, and with regards to whom?

Just curious; not detracting from what you're saying at all.