Gitmo suicides 'a PR stunt'

No, it isn't. It is a special status that the Bush administration came up with as Magnetic Poles explained.

Well, Milady, since you are the one who sniggered that it was nothing new, it is up to you to provide evidence, LOLS. It appears from the time frame that you have made no attempt whatsover to back up your own assertion (giggle).

 

Might I point out that YOU don't know them either!

 

Afraid too? :laugh:

Did you miss where I said "benefit of the doubt"? I don't have any evidence to the guilt of anyone in the prisons all over the USA. Does that mean they are innocent until I have personally seen the evidence of their guilt? I just have to trust that our system of justice is fair, and give them the "benefit of the doubt". Every report I have seen on Gitmo has led me to the conclusion that these guys are bad, they are receiving fair treatment, and occasionally some are freed.

Do you actually believe reports such as "Qurans being flushed down the toilet"? If so, go take a book, any book, and try flushing it down the toilet.

 

Not addressed to me, but YOU are the one calling names.

 

You might, but what would be the point? I'm not the one who is claiming that they were terrorists, that they killed before, that they are jerks and yahoos or that they killed themselves for "publicity". I haven't made any claims about who these particular prisoners were, unlike SOME people.

 

Yep...page by page.

 

Any idea how long that would take? :laugh:

 

On the contrary, your staunch defense of them, says that you say that they are innocent. War happens. Get over it. Your disagreement is with the regulations in war time. Look back over History. This has happened for every war too.

 

Milady, Daisy has NOT declared them innocent. She has pointed out that they have not been found guilty of anything. No doubt, there are innocents and guilty persons captured in war. However, we are violating basic human rights by denying them access to defense counsel, and a hearing of the evidence.

By violating the rights of others, how do we now expect American POWs to be treated. This will come back to bite us for years.

 

Looks it to me.

No I saw it. But that doesn't answer Matt and Daisy's questions, it avoids them.

That doesn't answer Matt and Daisy's questions either.

Okay so you know how to ask questions, but can you answer them as well?

I've read alot of them also, big deal, what does that prove...we can read...whoopie. Now, can you or can you not answer Matt and Daisy's questions?

What does that have do with answering Matt and Daisy's questions?

 

I don't know for a fact that the detainees are terrorists. (I guess that means they aren't)

I haven't seen any evidence. (I guess Bush really is a liar)

No evidence has been adduced before a court of law. (They are definately innocent and we are definately guilty of something)

I would definately change my tune if the government carted me off without charging me. (I don't expect that to happen, I am a citizen of the USA, but I guess that is what happens next.)

There, Poncho, have I answered to your satisfaction?

 

Innocent or guilty...... they are either one or the other.NO grey areas. I am not supporting the regulations that keep them there. Just not defending the prisoners that are held there. Do you KNOW why they are held? Did you know that if they give any information to the US authorities their families get killed? Their suicides show that they gave nothing up, thus their families are safe
How Long were they held there? I don't know, do you?
A house divided against itself cannot stand--Jesus said that.
How can the USA Stand against ANY foe, if its citizens attack the laws and rulers?
My agreements/ disagreements against them must not be aired for anyone.

Our Government has put them in prison for a reason Just because you don't know what those reasons are, does not give you the right to attack them.

 

That is a gross misinterpretation of what I have actually said. How do you get from "They are held without being charged" to "They must be innocent"? Any jump in logic is yours and yours alone.

It is also very bad manners to say that I have said something I have not. More than bad manners and questionable debate tactic, it is deceitful.

No, it doesn't unless people decide to fight. We made the decision to go to war; it did NOT just "happen".

Who do you think you are telling me what to do? You who don't even attempt to back up her statements with anything resembling evidence! Pfft!

Yet again you get my position wrong. My disagreement is with the violations of the regulations.

Since you claim to know so much, prove that civilians captured in the first Gulf War were held without charges, incommunicado, on foreign soil, for years on end, lols.

 

Well, let's take a look.

Doesn't mean they are innocent, it only means that we don't know whether they are guilty or not.

Doesn't mean Bush is a liar, it only means that you've seen no evidence that they are guilty of being terrorists.

Doesn't mean they definately aren't terrorists either.

It's already happened.

Jose Padilla is an American citizen and he was held without charge and not allowed access to counsel until recently.

There now, that wasn't so hard was it?

 

The poor babies.:tear:

Many of them would have already been gone except no other country would agree to take them.

 

Innocent or guilty of what? Why are there no grey areas and what would a grey area be?

Not for sure, but according to the Independent Online Edition (linkie):

Where did you get that from? Who is going to do the killing? The Yemeni & Saudi governments are friendly with the US.

*sigh* What happened to it being a PR stunt? Or common prison despair? Really, Milady, where do you get this from? Can you cite a source?

The 21 year old Saudi, Yasser al-Zahrani, was there 3 years, since he was 17. I don't know about the other two, Manei al-Otaibi, age 30, and Ali Abdullah Ahmed, age 33, except that one of them was about to be returned home (but he didn't know it yet). Information and perhaps disinformation is still trickling out.

Questioning apparent illegal activity is an attack? The laws are laws that we citizens agreed upon and our "rulers" are fellow citizens who serve at our will.

Secrecy in government will kill democracy, supposedly what we are fighting for.

But is the reason lawful?

The First Amendment gives me the right to question our Government and my duty as a citizen gives me the obligation.

 

Evidence? or did you just pull that out of your, um, hat?

 

Guess how you find out? A trial with evidence presented. If national security is an issue, trials can be held behind closed doors, with proper observers.

See the above.

 

So mere allegation is good enough to lock someone away without end? If you are ever accused of anything, I hope you remember that. Just because the government alleges something, they have to prove their case.

As Daisy so eloquently stated above, the government is not our boss...we are the boss of the government....supposedly.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by carpro
The poor babies.:tear:

Many of them would have already been gone except no other country would agree to take them.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/04/21/nearly_30_percent_at_guantanamo_jail_cleared_to_go/]SOURCE[/url]

By Will Dunham | April 21, 2006

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly 30 percent of the Guantanamo detainees have been cleared to leave the prison but remain jailed because the U.S. government has been unable to arrange for their return to their home countries, the Pentagon said on Friday.

http://www.uyghurcongress.org/En/news.asp?ItemID=1141810158&rcid=803688565&pcid=1110134820&cid=803688565]SOURCE[/url]

"In the case of one group of prisoners, Muslims from western China known as Uighurs, the U.S. has struggled to find a solution.

A military tribunal has determined that five are "no longer enemy combatants" and can be released from Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. agrees they could face persecution back in China, but so far has not found a third country to take them."

<edited only to shorten url - LE, except it didn't work!>