Give Jesus a 60-day trial..

[webdog]

Indicative of the difficulty in the economy some car dealers will let you try out a car for 30 days now. Is the 60 days of Warren a sign of desperation in the Church?

One word: No.

 

[webdog]

I don't think it is unreasonable that many of us wished that being blessed with the wonderful opportunity to witness to millions of people on television, he would just go that little extra step of making it crystal clear that Jesus it the only way. Sure he nibbles around it which obviously satisfies many here, but I would love to see him being more bold and speak the Gospel truth clear enough that any layman would have no choice but to understand the message.

People want to believe that there are many ways to heaven. They want to be left comfortable with that belief. They look at things from that perspective, and what RW said in his interview unfortunately to many would not be all that clear that they are entirly wrong in their beliefs.

Just the fact that he qualified his statement with I am not an authority on that weakens it. I ask how can a pastor not be an authority of the fact that Jesus it the only way to the Father, the only way to heaven?

I find it sad that brothers and sisters get accused of hate and envy just for wanting Jesus clearly proclaimed.

RW said he is not THE authority. Fact is, this is true...we are not the authority on who God saves. He presented Jesus as the only way, and I think we get all hung up on not using the same Gospel verbage we would like to use.

When fishing (as for men), you put the bait out there. Like with fish, the bait is not the same for everyone. If you get a nibble, you work the line and reel in the fish. We are to be fishers of men, but it sounds like some on this thread would prefer to take the "hunting" approach with double barreled shotguns blazing away.

Facts of the conversation:
1. RW said he is not the authority on who God saves
2. RW said he puts his trust in Jesus
3. RW states Jesus said He is the only way
4. RW said God did not send 1000 Jesus'

You add up all the tidbits of bait, it is pretty clear what his message is. We worry too much on not letting the Holy Spirit convict the sinners. If someone is looking for the Truth, there is enough here to go on. If someone is looking for many paths to Heaven, they will twist any words anybody says anyway. Let God be God, and God's servants be God's servants. Afterall, he was predestined to say what he did anyway

 

[MB]

I don't think it is unreasonable that many of us wished that being blessed with the wonderful opportunity to witness to millions of people on television, he would just go that little extra step of making it crystal clear that Jesus it the only way. Sure he nibbles around it which obviously satisfies many here, but I would love to see him being more bold and speak the Gospel truth clear enough that any layman would have no choice but to understand the message.

I agree and the fact that he seems to avoid this makes me wonder about him.

People want to believe that there are many ways to heaven. They want to be left comfortable with that belief. They look at things from that perspective, and what RW said in his interview unfortunately to many would not be all that clear that they are entirly wrong in their beliefs.

Just the fact that he qualified his statement with I am not an authority on that weakens it. I ask how can a pastor not be an authority of the fact that Jesus it the only way to the Father, the only way to heaven?

I find it sad that brothers and sisters get accused of hate and envy just for wanting Jesus clearly proclaimed.

Sounds more like a feel good preacher tickling the ears of his congregation. He has to keep telling them what they want to hear in order to keep them from turning on him now.
This botherd me as well; He said;
"The moment you were born into the world, God was there as an unseen witness, smiling at your birth. ... It proves your worth. If you are that important to God, and he considers you valuable enough to keep you for eternity, what great significance could you have? ..." (He just told us that we are so good we don't need a Savior.) He goes on " Anything you do that brings pleasure to God is an act of worship ... You may be gifted at mechanics or mathematics or music or a thousand other skills. All these abilities can bring a smile to God's face. ... You only bring him enjoyment by being you. Anytime you reject any part of yourself, you are rejecting God's wisdom and sovereignty in creating you. ... God also gains pleasure in watching you enjoy his creation. ..." ( Wow there is so much good in man he doesn't even have to die to sin I just knew it all along) When you are sleeping, God gazes at you with love, because you were his idea. He loves you as if you were the only person on earth" (pp. 61, 64, 74, 75). " From The book "The Purpose Drive Life" by Rick Warren.
This is an "I'm good enough to be saved gospel." None of this is in the Bible. it's all hog wash. I know maybe we're to good for Salvation. The sinners of the world love him because he complements there self esteem.
MB

 

[webdog]

I agree and the fact that he seems to avoid this makes me wonder about him.

Avoid what

Sounds more like a feel good preacher tickling the ears of his congregation. He has to keep telling them what they want to hear in order to keep them from turning on him now.

It's apparent you are quite clueless about his ministry and church, then.

This is an "I'm good enough to be saved gospel." None of this is in the Bible. it's all hog wash. I know maybe we're to good for Salvation. The sinners of the world love him because he complements there self esteem.

It's even more apparent you are clueless about his ministry and church
Why did God create the reprobate, MB? Does He really desire that they repent, or not?

 

[MB]

Avoid what

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

It's apparent you are quite clueless about his ministry and church, then.

You sound more like a Calvinist everytime we speak
Am I clueless? Then his book has nothing to do with what he preaches.

It's even more apparent you are clueless about his ministry and church
Why did God create the reprobate, MB? Does He really desire that they repent, or not?

I am an undeserving sinner but a reprobate is unsavable. He has been rejected because a reprobate is defined as:
"1. Not enduring proof or trial; not of standard purity or fineness; disallowed; rejected.
Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them. Jer 6.
2. Abandoned in sin; lost to virtue or grace.
They profess that they know God, but in works deny him, being abominable and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate. Titus 1.
3. Abandoned to error, or in apostasy. 2 Tim 3.
REP'ROBATE, n. A person abandoned to sin; one lost to virtue and religion."


Maybe you are a reprobate I don't know but as for me I have not been abandoned to sin. I have not been rejected nor have I been disallowed. You really should pay attention to what words mean. You approve of your own self esteem but claim you're a reprobate. This makes no sense.
MB

 

[webdog]

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Which is what he said. Point?

You sound more like a Calvinist everytime we speak
Am I clueless? Then his book has nothing to do with what he preaches.

What does this have to do with anything? Dr. Bob is a calvinist, and he has stated on this thread how unfair these unfounded attacks and accusation are. The calvinism debate has nothing to do with it, but FTR, it is mainly calvinists who attack Warren. Maybe you are the one sounding more and more like a calvinist, then?

I am an undeserving sinner but a reprobate is unsavable. He has been rejected because a reprobate is defined as:
"1. Not enduring proof or trial; not of standard purity or fineness; disallowed; rejected.
Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them. Jer 6.
2. Abandoned in sin; lost to virtue or grace.
They profess that they know God, but in works deny him, being abominable and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate. Titus 1.
3. Abandoned to error, or in apostasy. 2 Tim 3.
REP'ROBATE, n. A person abandoned to sin; one lost to virtue and religion."


Maybe you are a reprobate I don't know but as for me I have not been abandoned to sin. I have not been rejected nor have I been disallowed. You really should pay attention to what words mean. You approve of your own self esteem but claim you're a reprobate. This makes no sense.
MB

Maybe it is you that should actually pay attention to what I actually say. I never claimed to be a reprobate. It's really hard to have a conversation when one side is off in left field, MB.

I asked you: Why did God create the reprobate? I know it's tough, but hang with me here...

 

[MB]

Webdog;
I barrowed this from a friend of mine. I know RW quotes all these people who I consider heretics. The fact that most of them are Catholic's says volumes about the man. Please read who they are then tell me how many you agree with.
"In keeping with his unscriptural judge not philosophy, Warren uncritically quotes from a wide variety of theological heretics, especially Roman Catholics such as Mother Teresa, Henri Nouwen, Brother Lawrence (Carmelite monk), John Main (Benedictine monk who believes that Christ "is not limited to Jesus of Nazareth, but remains among us in the monastic leaders, the sick, the guest, the poor"), Madame Guyon (a Roman Catholic who taught that prayer is not from the mind does not involve thinking), John of the Cross (a pantheist who believed the mountains and forests are God). Warren does not warn his readers that these are dangerous false teachers who held to a false gospel and worshipped a false christ.
Mother Teresa and Henri Nouwen were universalists who believed that men can be saved apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ. When Mother Teresa died, her longtime friend and biographer Naveen Chawla said that he once asked her bluntly, "Do you convert?" She replied, "Of course I convert. I convert you to be a better Hindu or a better Muslim or a better Protestant. Once you've found God, it's up to you to decide how to worship him" ("Mother Teresa Touched other Faiths," Associated Press, Sept. 7, 1997). Henri Nouwen said, "Today I personally believe that while Jesus came to open the door to God's house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her own way to God" (Henri Nouwen, Sabbatical Journey)."

It's easy to be deceived Satan has been at it since the beginng and is very good at it. Any one who quotes these kinds of people are obviously of those people.
MB

 

[webdog]

I don't understand what any of this has to do with the topic. It seems like you are just licking your chops, bringing out anything you can aganst him. I never realized quoting a "heretic" was the determining factor in one's salvation or ministry. It's apparent the author has the same presuppositions as you, hence it's futile trying to argue against either.

It's easy to be deceived Satan has been at it since the beginng and is very good at it. Any one who quotes these kinds of people are obviously of those people.

I recall Paul quoting the greeks (heretics) about their "unknown God"...obviously he was "of those people"

 

[MB]

I don't understand what any of this has to do with the topic. It seems like you are just licking your chops, bringing out anything you can aganst him. I never realized quoting a "heretic" was the determining factor in one's salvation or ministry. It's apparent the author has the same presuppositions as you, hence it's futile trying to argue against either.

I recall Paul quoting the greeks (heretics) about their "unknown God"...obviously he was "of those people"

Oh really! was that a quote or an acknowledgement.
Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
MB

 

[webdog]

It couldn't have been an acknowledgement, since he knew there was no such thing as an "unknown god".

With that I am done with this thread. Those who wish to attack and berate Warren will continue to do so regardless.

 

[MB]

[/color]
Which is what he said. Point?

What does this have to do with anything? Dr. Bob is a calvinist, and he has stated on this thread how unfair these unfounded attacks and accusation are. The calvinism debate has nothing to do with it, but FTR, it is mainly calvinists who attack Warren. Maybe you are the one sounding more and more like a calvinist, then?

Maybe it is you that should actually pay attention to what I actually say. I never claimed to be a reprobate. It's really hard to have a conversation when one side is off in left field, MB.

I asked you: Why did God create the reprobate? I know it's tough, but hang with me here...

God didn't create the reprobate. The reprobate got to his position all by himself. There is only one way to Christ. What a man may know will not get him there. What get's a man there is Christ, He is the only way. There is no other and Rick Warren doesn't know that to be true.
Check out the videos on Him at youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyyEIEDqrQ&NR=1
Then tell me what a wonderful pastor he is.
MB

 

[webdog]

God didn't create the reprobate. The reprobate got to his position all by himself. There is only one way to Christ. What a man may know will not get him there. What get's a man there is Christ, He is the only way. There is no other and Rick Warren doesn't know that to be true.
Check out the videos on Him at youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyyEIEDqrQ&NR=1
Then tell me what a wonderful pastor he is.
MB

OK...I lied

If God didn't create the reprobate, how were they formed...by aliens, evolution? I'm not talking about their condition, I'm talking about who created all of those who spend eternity in hell? God had a plan for them, did He not? Did they not reject this plan?

The person that created that video has the same agenda as you do. Funny, no context whatsoever other than "these are unbelievers" (which is what most Rick Warren haters do). Unreal. Rick Warren has done more to reach the lost then you, I and that idiot who made the video on youtube. He has discipled more believers than probably most throughout this country. Those people in turn have discipled others. To me, that is a sign of a great pastor, and I have no problem saying that whatsoever.

 

[MB]

OK...I lied

I wouldn't say you lied maybe over spoke but you didn't lie.

If God didn't create the reprobate, how were they formed...by aliens, evolution? I'm not talking about their condition, I'm talking about who created all of those who spend eternity in hell? God had a plan for them, did He not? Did they not reject this plan?

I don't believe God creates men to be reprobates. The man makes himself a reprobate by continual rejection of Christ. I know you believe we are all responsible for our own sins. Man is responsible for being the reprobate he becomes. God did not create men to be reprobates.

The person that created that video has the same agenda as you do.

My only agenda is the truth of scripture. You may disagree if you wish but your disagreement doesn't make is so. Is your agenda to defame me because we disagree? Your critical attitude of me, is it any different than what you accuse me of?

OK don't pay any attention to the dialog but listen to what RW actually says
RW has done more to mislead than just about anyone I know. I don't believe even for a minute the man has led one soul to Christ. His whole ministery is about man and him self not God and His Son.

I and that idiot who made the video on youtube. He has discipled more believers than probably most throughout this country. Those people in turn have discipled others. To me, that is a sign of a great pastor, and I have no problem saying that whatsoever.

Who do you know who was led to Christ by the man? Show me where that man has said Christ is the only way to God. So far your only defense of him is your disagreement or haven't you noticed You haven't offered even one supportive statement made by the man.
Go to his sites on the net and search for what Salvation is trully about. Find just one provable quote by the man that says Jesus Christ is the only way. Everything is church to him show me where he invites men to accept to Christ to repent and confess there sins. Prove me wrong don't just sit there and tell me how evil it is to defame the man. Maybe you can't.

I'm not interested in defaming the man but am only interested in the truth of what the man says. People said the same things as you about promise keepers. A catholic organization. And the RCC just sucked them in by the thousands. Funny they don't even know that when they give to this organization they are supporting the Pope.

Regardless of who made the video or what there agenda is, the fact remains that RW did say what the video shows him to say. Myself I was shocked to hear what he claimed is the way to heaven. It is not by works and reward as he claims. I've watch the man preach and found what he preaches to sort of skirt around just enough truth to satisfy those who are already saved yet at the same time derail their theology all together and deceive them.

I'm not telling you all this because I hate the man or you or what you believe. I just want to encourage you to investigate what is going on before he carries you down his broad road to destruction.

When a preacher says God enjoys watching you do your own thing instead of fulfilling God great commission there is something wrong. We weren't created to be mechanics or carpenters. We were created to be doers of the Word. We are commanded to spread the gospel and if God ever smiles on us it's when we are fulfilling His will.

Like Benny Hinn he doesn't want you to compete with him for the congregations money. He wants that for him self. He wants you to go out and make that money and give it to him.
MB

 

[webdog]

MB, I would say repent immediately. Your last post was full or slander, lies and hate. I'm now done discussing this with you, as the lightning bolt may transfer from your computer to mine...

 

[rbell]

Like Benny Hinn he doesn't want you to compete with him for the congregations money. He wants that for him self. He wants you to go out and make that money and give it to him.
MB

This bald-faced lie alone destroys your credibility. Shame on you.

 

[MB]

MB, I would say repent immediately. Your last post was full or slander, lies and hate. I'm now done discussing this with you, as the lightning bolt may transfer from your computer to mine...

I did notice you didn't wish to defend him you wanted to say I lied instead. What I said must be true because you can't show proof of your position.
MB

 

[rbell]

So...MB, it's OK to slander another Christian?

(BTW...I did copy above what part of your post was a bald-faced lie).

 

[webdog]

I did notice you didn't wish to defend him you wanted to say I lied instead. What I said must be true because you can't show proof of your position.
MB

There is nothing to defend when one speaks lies. You state you don't want to "defame the man"...and then go on to do just that with outright lies and slander. You have lost my respect.

What a waste these thread are

 

[MB]

There is nothing to defend when one speaks lies. You state you don't want to "defame the man"...and then go on to do just that with outright lies and slander. You have lost my respect.

What a waste these thread are

I never asked for any respect and you certainly never gave any. You call me a liar and you haven't proved that to be true either. Just like the rest of the things you claim, no proof. The shame is on you.
MB

 

[rbell]

Like Benny Hinn he doesn't want you to compete with him for the congregations money. He wants that for him self. He wants you to go out and make that money and give it to him.
MB

Above is the lie you have repeated.

How about researching what Rick Warren has done with his finances before making such a bone-headed statement?

You want to slam his theology...fine. Go ahead. But when you begin to slander a fellow believer (and do so unrepentantly), then don't be surprised when you are called on it.