God Causes or Allows Whatsoever Comes to Pass.

[Van]

God causes, ordains, predestines OR allows whatsoever comes to pass.

God does not just cause, ordain or predestine whatsoever comes to pass.

Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.

Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.

 

[Van]

God allows humans to make choices that could alter the outcome of their lives, such as believing into Christ or not.

 

[Van]

Pretty simple doctrine, if we choose not to put our faith and commitment in Christ, then God will not credit our unbelief as righteousness, as He as already condemned it. But if we choose to put our faith and commitment in Christ, that will not save us, but only if God chooses to credit our faith and commitment as righteousness, then God and God alone will save us.

False teachers try to claim we cannot come to faith, but 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen for salvation through "faith in the truth." They use various absurd arguments to nullify this biblical truth, claiming we were chosen for salvation before we had faith.

The solution of course, for this dilemma caused by not correctly understanding either 2 Thessalonians 2:13 or Ephesians 1:4, is to accept that the election of Ephesians 1:4 is corporate, as when God chose His Redeemer before creation, He corporately, but not individually, chose those His Redeemer would redeem. This view is necessitated by 1 Peter 2:9-10, because that passage precludes being chosen individually for salvation before we were once not a people chosen for God's own possession, and once we had not received mercy.

All of scripture fits together perfectly, when we rightly divide its truth as authorized workmen not needing to be ashamed. Those that need to nullify verse after verse, rather than reverse course and check their assumptions or understanding of the verses that are the basis of their beliefs are springs without water.

 

[Paleouss]

God causes, ordains, predestines OR allows whatsoever comes to pass.

God does not just cause, ordain or predestine whatsoever comes to pass.

Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.

Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.

Greetings again Van. Peace and hope in Christ our Lord.

As usual, I'll take the middle ground.

Yes, God's providence is complete. Before the foundation of the world God the Father with God the Son “worked out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will” (Eph 1:11). Knowing all that would come to pass, working out “everything to its proper end” (Prov 16:4), numbering the days of all humankind “before one of them came to be" (Psa 139:16), so that His “purpose [would] stand” (Isa 46:10). Not only were all things made through God the Son but He planned to become the incarnate participant, that is Christ Jesus, within creation and by this very participation has secured creation’s ultimate redemption from sin. All that was created, all that is, and all that will be is made “for Him” (Col 1:16). As Augustine wrote, “Thou hast formed us for Thyself, and our hearts are restless till they find rest in Thee.”

In addition, however, man is responsible for his own faith. The situation appears to require words such as submit (Jam 4:7) or resist (Acts 7:51, Rom 13:2, 2tim 3:8) and accept (Num 14:11) or reject (Mark 7:9, Acts 13:46 1Thes 4:8). More than words like choice or choose (but to each his own). As it is written, God “gives grace to the humble” (1Pet 5:5). This humbling (Isa 66:2) is a submission to God (Jam 4:7) and denying yourself (Luke 9:23), being lowly of spirit (Pro 16:19, Pro 29:23), contrite of heart (Psa 51:17, Psa 34:18), and not puffed up (Hab 2:4). It is what John Calvin calls bringing a faith that is “empty before God”.

Both God's providential will and man's will are true at the same time, i.e., "you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good" (Gen 50:20). The closest I think we can come as a compromise would be to offer the Molinist Theism position. The Molinist attempt to work out the exact position I hold, i.e., God has providential control of all things, worked out all things to His glory...AND...Man's will is free to submit or not. How one can provide irrefutable logic for this, I know not. Maybe one day God will call me home and let me know.

But for now, I simply know the Bible teaches both.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

 

[Zaatar71]

God causes, ordains, predestines OR allows whatsoever comes to pass.

God does not just cause, ordain or predestine whatsoever comes to pass.

Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.

Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.

Are you now suggesting that God is not God? Are you saying that God cannot do what He wants?

 

[JesusFan]

Are you now suggesting that God is not God? Are you saying that God cannot do what He wants?

Well, he has stated here that God can choose to forget and not Know all things

 

[JesusFan]

God causes, ordains, predestines OR allows whatsoever comes to pass.

God does not just cause, ordain or predestine whatsoever comes to pass.

Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.

Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.

All things happen due to God causing or allowing them to occur

 

[Van]

Are you now suggesting that God is not God? Are you saying that God cannot do what He wants?

God causes, ordains, predestines OR allows whatsoever comes to pass.
God does not just cause, ordain or predestine whatsoever comes to pass.
Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.
Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.

 

[Zaatar71]

God causes, ordains, predestines OR allows whatsoever comes to pass.
God does not just cause, ordain or predestine whatsoever comes to pass.
Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.
Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.

It looks like you lack understanding on how these terms have different meanings. You suggest that things happen by chance?
The fact is God ordains whatsoever comes to pass. To deny this, is to deny God is not in control of things, but only a bystander waiting to see what chance encounters will take place. This might be a clue, as to why you seem to oppose the truths of God's grace in reference to the TULI...you say it cannot be so, but it is.

 

[kyredneck]

God causes, ordains, predestines OR allows whatsoever comes to pass.

God does not just cause, ordain or predestine whatsoever comes to pass.

Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.

Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.

'Predestine' is found only four times in the scriptures and is ALWAYS in reference to God choosing individuals for a people for His own possession, NOT to events.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 1

 

[Van]

It looks like you lack understanding on how these terms have different meanings. You suggest that things happen by chance?
The fact is God ordains whatsoever comes to pass. To deny this, is to deny God is not in control of things, but only a bystander waiting to see what chance encounters will take place. This might be a clue, as to why you seem to oppose the truths of God's grace in reference to the TULI...you say it cannot be so, but it is.

Sir, you can redefine the meanings of words to create different meanings. Such as I "suggest that things happen by chance."

Here is what I said:

Scripture teaches things happen by chance necessitating the allowance of chance occurrence.