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God Centered vs. Man Centered evangelism

W

Winman

Active Member
Me Centered

Sinners have the key in their hands.

God Centered

God has the key in his hand.

Are you sure this is a book about evangelism, or is it a book condemning Arminianism and promoting Calvinism?
 
J

Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
Me Centered

Sinners have the key in their hands.

God Centered

God has the key in his hand.

Are you sure this is a book about evangelism, or is it a book condemning Arminianism and promoting Calvinism?
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Sad how most people cannot seem to reconcile free will and God's sovereignty.

Calvinism is illogical.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Revmitchell said:
It is a paradox and it needs no reconciliation.
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That God can choose us, and that we can choose God is neither a paradox, nor illogical, we can see this every day in our own lives.

If you have a job, it is because your employer chose you. You could not go there and work if your employer did not choose you.

At the same time, you chose your employer, you applied for a job there, and your employer could not have chosen you unless you had applied for that job.

No contradiction, no paradox, and perfectly logical.
 
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R

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revmitchell said:
It is a paradox and it needs no reconciliation.
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Not free will and divine sovereignty but Divine Sovereignty and Human Responsibility. Charles Spurgeon said they didn't need to be reconciled because they never had a falling out. ;-)

I like what J.I. Packer has said in his booklet, Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God.

"For the whole point of an antimony --in theology, at any rate --is that it is not a real contradiction, though it looks like one. It is an apparent incompatibility between two apparent truths. Antimony exists when a pair of principles stand by side, seemingly irreconcilable, yet both undeniable. There are two cogent reasons for believing each of them; each rests on clear and solid evidence; but it is a mystery to you how they can be squared with each other. You see that each must be true to its own, but you do not see how they both can be true together." (p.26)
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jordan Kurecki said:
Sad how most people cannot seem to reconcile free will and God's sovereignty.

Calvinism is illogical.
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So are those non Calvinist who seem to want to ignore the fall, and original Sin issues, and seem to think that its up to us to freely decide our own fates!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
That God can choose us, and that we can choose God is neither a paradox, nor illogical, we can see this every day in our own lives.

If you have a job, it is because your employer chose you. You could not go there and work if your employer did not choose you.

At the same time, you chose your employer, you applied for a job there, and your employer could not have chosen you unless you had applied for that job.

No contradiction, no paradox, and perfectly logical.
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Except that due to the nature of sin, we are not able to freely chose as in your job example!

And why would God even base us getting saved on what we do, instead of what he does do?
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
Except that due to the nature of sin, we are not able to freely chose as in your job example!

And why would God even base us getting saved on what we do, instead of what he does do?
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How many times will you tell outright falsehoods? I have shown you from scripture itself that Paul said persons who were servants to sin OBEYED the gospel from their heart.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:17-18 absolutely refutes your view that sinners cannot freely choose to obey the gospel. Here Paul thanks God that these Romans who were servants of sin OBEYED the gospel from their hearts.

It was only AFTER obeying and believing the gospel that they were made free from sin and BECAME servants of righteousness.

You have been shown this scripture several times now, how long will you continue to teach false doctrine? You have no excuse, this scripture clearly refutes your false view of Total Inability.

Will you believe the scriptures, or will you believe Calvinism? They are not the same.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
How many times will you tell outright falsehoods? I have shown you from scripture itself that Paul said persons who were servants to sin OBEYED the gospel from their heart.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:17-18 absolutely refutes your view that sinners cannot freely choose to obey the gospel. Here Paul thanks God that these Romans who were servants of sin OBEYED the gospel from their hearts.

It was only AFTER obeying and believing the gospel that they were made free from sin and BECAME servants of righteousness.

You have been shown this scripture several times now, how long will you continue to teach false doctrine? You have no excuse, this scripture clearly refutes your false view of Total Inability.

Will you believe the scriptures, or will you believe Calvinism? They are not the same.
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Those were the saved/redeemed in Jesus. correct?

Yes, they were set free from bondage to Sin by knowing Christ!
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
Those were the saved/redeemed in Jesus. correct?

Yes, they were set free from bondage to Sin by knowing Christ!
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Why do you ask a question you know the answer to? How could they have been saved when they were servants to sin?

You will NEVER come clean. Ever.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
Why do you ask a question you know the answer to? How could they have been saved when they were servants to sin?

You will NEVER come clean. Ever.
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paul was adressing those who once were slaves to their own sins, but were made alive again into Christ, correct?
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
paul was adressing those who once were slaves to their own sins, but were made alive again into Christ, correct?
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Paul was addressing Romans that believed the gospel from the heart even though they were servants of sin. The moment they believed the gospel they were set free from sin.

Paul is showing that a sinner can believe the gospel as he is, and does not need to be regenerated to have the ability to believe as you falsely teach.

You don't understand because you don't want to understand.

Now, how many times are you going to ask the same questions? Do you have a learning disability?
 
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