More importantly, the Bible names those whom God has NOT chosen to save. Judas and Esau, for examples. The rest can be assumed to be grandfathered in. What then, is the purpose of evangelism? To welcome people into the temporal church so that they may obtain the temporal blessings of their salvation.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
God chooses whom He saves
- Thread starter Moriah
- Start date
plain_n_simple
Active Member
He chose all because His Son is the sacrifice for all.
Yes, you are right. God gives the Holy Spirit to those HE accepts. That is exactly what I'm saying. The verse is really quite clear. I'm sorry you can't see it.
If someone is not yet saved and they want to be, they can search for God, they can get Jesus’ teachings and start obeying them, then they can be the person in whom the Father and Son make their home and reveal themselves.
Jesus is the sacrifice for all, but that does not mean Jesus saves all. Jesus chooses those he will save. The Bible tells us who these people are.
IF they are seeking jesus to get save, it shows us that God has elected them to become save din Christ, so the Lord will enable them to hear the Gospel, and receive Jesus by faith!
God requires sinners to be odedient AFTER saved and becoming saints, NOT before!
God commands ALL people EVERYWHERE to repent. God wants all men to seek him and reach out for him and find him, he is NOT FAR FROM EACH ONE OF US. See Acts 17:27, 30.
important thing is that God requires us to obey him AFTER he saves us, ONLY requires us to believe in jesus before!
Are you admitting error when you claim that God elects people to believe? Are you going to stop believing and teaching that God only wants some to be saved and not others?
As for you saying God requires us to obey Him after He saves us, and only requires us to believe in Jesus before…that is not true, for the scriptures tell us believing IS obeying. The scriptures tell us to believe and confess. The scriptures tell us that those who obey Jesus are the ones Jesus gives the Holy Spirit.
Why have you not yet given me the answer to your beliefs on who God chooses and why? You only say that God elects people to save, and that they believe because He elected them. Please explain to me why God elects those to be saved.
savedbymercy
New Member
God did not choose to save all !
Born to be destroyed !
The Reprobates are those that were born to be taken and destroyed as brute beast !
2 Pet 2:12
12 But these [False Teachers], as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
The word made here is the greek word gennaō and it means:
of men who fathered children
a) to be born
b) to be begotten
1) of women giving birth to children
2) metaph.
a) to engender, cause to arise, excite
It means to be born in the NT at least 39 times, beget 49 times
In other words it was their purpose for being born, or for God causing them to rise up into existence.
Similar to what God says of Pharoah Rom 9:17
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Interestingly, the word raised is the greek word egeirō and means:
to raise up i.e. cause to be born
Thats because Pharaoh and all the rest of the reprobates are vessels of wrath, made to be taken and destroyed, they had no possible chance of Salvation by the Grace and Mercy of God ! That would have been opposite to God's Purpose for them !
Born to be destroyed !
The Reprobates are those that were born to be taken and destroyed as brute beast !
2 Pet 2:12
12 But these [False Teachers], as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
The word made here is the greek word gennaō and it means:
of men who fathered children
a) to be born
b) to be begotten
1) of women giving birth to children
2) metaph.
a) to engender, cause to arise, excite
It means to be born in the NT at least 39 times, beget 49 times
In other words it was their purpose for being born, or for God causing them to rise up into existence.
Similar to what God says of Pharoah Rom 9:17
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Interestingly, the word raised is the greek word egeirō and means:
to raise up i.e. cause to be born
Thats because Pharaoh and all the rest of the reprobates are vessels of wrath, made to be taken and destroyed, they had no possible chance of Salvation by the Grace and Mercy of God ! That would have been opposite to God's Purpose for them !
God draws us with lovingkindness (Jeremiah 31:3). God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked, see Luke 6:35. The following are scriptures that show a loving God, and that God calls and some do not answer. They resist God.
But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people." Romans 10:21. God held his hands out. The people were obstinate to God holding his hands out. Isaiah 65:2 All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--
Does it make sense that God would hold out His hands to people if He made it impossible for them to come to Him? Calvinism is insanity. Pagans CHOOSE to do that in which they do. 1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
God held out His hands to disobedient and obstinate people. They rejected God. It is their sin, their sin of rejecting God. They rejected God on their own and will be judged and punished for that. When God judges them and punishes them, it will be the sin of rejecting God. If God made them without the capability to believe, then they would be innocent.
Calvinists say that God created all people with the inability to choose Him, yet in these next scriptures, it shows that God wants the wicked to turn from their ways. Why would God plead with them to turn from their ways if they cannot choose to?
"But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me." Isaiah 65:11-12. Here God says about being forsaken and His holy mountain being forgot. Also, this passage tells us that God called the people, and the people did not answer; He spoke but the people did not listen.
Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Romans 11:14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. How could Paul ever think that he could save some by arousing them to envy if God saves us by the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe?
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Following are more indisputable passages from the bible that show Calvinism is not biblical.
Acts 17 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' 29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."
You see in Acts 17:27 God wants men to seek him, and that God is not far from "each one of us." In addition, see in 17:30 God commands "all people everywhere" to repent. Remember, Calvinists say not all men. Clearly, Calvinists beliefs are different from what God says. See also in 31, God has given proof to "all men."
savedbymercy
New Member
mor
He draws some with His Lovingkindness. That scripture is speaking about His Elect in Christ !
He draws some with His Lovingkindness. That scripture is speaking about His Elect in Christ !
God draws all with lovingkindness. God is kind even to the ungrateful and wicked.
savedbymercy
New Member
No He does not. Thats not what Jer 31:3 states, nor is that statement directed to everyone without exception !
When God draws someone, He has given them New Birth. That is what Drawing is ! Now where does scripture teach that God gives all men New Birth ?
Last edited by a moderator:
God draws all with lovingkindness, but there are people who resist.
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Luke 6:35
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." John 12:32
God draws all men. We DRAW near to God because of a better HOPE given us than that of the law; we hope in the perfection we receive through Jesus. See Hebrews 7:18, 19.
God draws all men with lovingkindness, but many resist. God drawing someone is NOT a new birth as you say. God does NOT give His Holy Spirit to those who resist Him.
You cannot show any scripture that says that.
savedbymercy
New Member
mor
Thats all in your imagination. Drawing is done by New Birth !
Thats all in your imagination. Drawing is done by New Birth !
Your doctrines come from the imagination of men put there by demons.
I quote scripture saying God draws us with loviningkindness, you however then say no, that God draws us by new birth.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say what you say.
savedbymercy
New Member
God chooses who believes in Christ !
God chooses those who believe in Christ, not those He makes to believe in Christ. God does not make us believe in Jesus, it is our choice.