God doesn't love the lost? Explain Matthew 5:43-48

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" "You would not allow me to gather your children" is not quite the same as "you would not allow me to gather you".

 

Hi KJ,

First of all not all Calvinists believe that God predesitnes men to hell. I don't. Man in condemed by his own sin.

Secondly, God loves the elect differently than he does the rest of humanity.

Would you not say that the saved are loved differntly than the non-saved? To me that is pretty clear.

As I stated there are two kinds of love, a general love for humanity, and a specific love for the elect.

 

Hello 4His_glory.

Of course but the Arminians would rather talk about what they think Calvin says instead of talking to us about what we believe.

It's hard to get around the predestinating to Hell because God could not have been neutral to those He did not elect.

We cannot be as we are conceived in sin and regarded as sinners from the first moment of our being. Imputation of Adam's sin is essential for the imputation of Christ's righteousness. Our own sins just heap up wrath but we are judged as guilty sinners and liable to death without notice from conception.

Love is love. No love is shown to those He creates for Hell.
1CO 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails...

No because in the end this love fails. Since love does not fail then it cannot be a different kind of love but hate it is. It does not protect from harm. Yet we see that Jesus would rather die than let harm come to those who belong to Him. Praise Him.

Any thing short of being born again is not worth a light.

A term I have heard is that of common grace but I believe common grace is there for us not for them. We live in the world and we need order in which to live and bring forth the elect. The wicked are there to do God's will and bring about His purposes and are hated. Anything falling short of salvation is not love.

john.

[ July 16, 2005, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: johnp. ]

 

Hey John...I am not one of those people who don't know what Calvinists believe. In fact, I know what they believe and most of them believe differently than you. But I think you take Calvinism to it's logical conclusion.

Whatever, to say "you" or "your children" is basically the same thing. He is talking to the city about its inhabitants. I think you knew what I meant. I know you knew what I meant.

 

"the children of whoever does not believe are condemned already" - surely not. The fact is, this verse is often misquoted in favor of a "free will" rejection of the gospel by the Jews. It is almost never quoted correctly. Jesus was not talking about free will. He was lamenting the truth of the charge of negligence that He had made against the scribes and Pharisees in 23:13 -

Yes, I know what you meant, and I know why you were wrong to use that verse.

 

Ok

 

Ouch KJ!

Their jumpin' on you early huh? ... I'll try to soften the blows a liitle bit...

God is pretty complex. This was though pointed at the Pharisees and NOT Jerusalem. It was not a salvation issue but a weeping over the ignorance of them not knowing the prophecies pointing to him being the messiah, ALSO and most importantly, the commoners where not allowed to come to him BECAUSE of the pharisees (who always referred to their students and unlearned as their "children") who where shunning everybody who where following Jesus, they were not WILLING them to come to Him. Matt 23 is one of the most venomous chapters in the Bible from Jesus against the teachers.

He is complex. I think we put God's emotions to much in a box sometimes. He can weep over them, yet hate them also. I think that is fair. But no matter what, this verse is not about salvation either way.

 

LOL thanks rc. I am glad to know you on this site and have much respect for you and people who discuss Calvinism in the manner you do with me.

What you said makes sense. But I don't understand how He can weep over someone if He hates them.

 

Sorry johnp, I will have to graciously disagree with you on this one, I don't believe in double predesitination. I think J Mac was right on this one.

Oh and I meant to say man is condemned because of his sin not that he condemns himself. I do believe though that man is responsible for his sin.

Any how, your still cool man.