God hates the sin and the sinner!

I am glad that pappy's understanding of God is not the biblical one. This narrow view of God would mean that none of us would ever be saved. All of us were the ones who practiced sin. Because God loves us He sent His Son to redeem us from sin. If God hates sinners in the way pappy states then all of us are damned to hell, because we are all sinners.

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

Bro Tony

 

I Timothy 2:4-5

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

II Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I John 4:10-11

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved if God so loved us, weought also to love one another.

 

Pappy,

IF thats true, God no where tells us to tell the sinners that.

God DOES tell us to declare His mighty works and His saving power, to declare that it is not God's will for ANY to perish.

We are to WARN people, not hate them. Why would anyone want to come to God if He hated them?

OH! and what about the verse that says "We love HIM because HE FIRST LOVED US"? God loves us....God loves you, PAPPY, and none of that in any way diminishes God's sense of justice or hatred of sin. God is alot better Person than we are, He can love a person completely while still completely hating their sin.

 

Pappy -- Romans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Which means that everyone on the earth is a sinner, so by what you are saying is that God hates everyone, so if he hates everyone, why does John 3:16 says "For God so LOVED the world..." I am a sinner saved by Gods grace, and LOVE for me when I was a sinner.

 

Pappy,

Explain God's relationship to David.
Explain God's relationship to Moses.
Explain God's relationship to you.

 

Remember Christ loved us WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS

Matthew 5:43-46

Explain this in context of God telling us to be perfect as He is, as the end statement of telling us to even love those that persecute us.

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Why would a God of hate give us Luke 7:47?

Luke 7:47 - Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."

Or this verse?

Luke 11:42 - "But woe to you Pharisees! for you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

John 13:35 - By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

1 Corinthians 13:2 - And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:13 - So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

1 Corinthians 14:1 - Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.

1 Corinthians 16:14 - Let all that you do be done in love.

2 Corinthians 13:11 - Finally, brethren, farewell. Mend your ways, heed my appeal, agree with one another, live in peace, and the God of love and peace will be with you.

Notice the past tense in this verse.
Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Ephesians 2:4 - But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us,

Ephesians 5:2 - And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

If you no longer sin, why do you need to be chastised? Hebrews 12:6 - For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."

1 John 4:8 - He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.

 

Pappy,

Why is it so important for you to prove that God hates sinners? Is it so you may justify hating sinners? Even if I were to accept your interpretation, which I do not, God is God and is free to hate or love whomever He wishes. Christians, on the other hand are told multiple times to love everyone. It is our love that sets us apart from sinners.

John 13:34-35

13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 15:10-14

15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

15:11
These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

15:14
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Romans 13:8

13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.


Luke 6:27-36

6:27
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

6:28
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

6:29
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

6:30
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

6:31
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

6:32
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

6:33
And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

6:34
And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful

Matthew 5:43-44

5:43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


So, Pappy, I ask again, what is your motivation in proving that God hates sinners? Regardless of who God does, or does not hate, you, as a Christian, are prohibited from hating anyone.

 

Pappy-

I said this on another board, so I guess I'll say it here. Is it possible we are misunderstanding the hate ("sane") in this verse?

I guess it can be said that our English understanding of hate usually carries with it a lack of love. God can detest and even be an enemy of a sinner, but still love them at the same time.

I don't see this verse as meaning a lack of love.

08130 sane' {saw-nay'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 2272; v
AV - hate 136, enemies 3, enemy 2, foes 1, hateful 1, misc 3; 146

 

I hope no unbeliever's read this thread!

 

You're 100% correct. The Hebrew word "sane" doesn't carry a connotation of "withholding love". That's an English implication that is not present in the source texts.

 

I'm not taking the position that God hates sinners but I've never really been able to understand these passages. Comments?
************************************************

Mal 1:2
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Mal 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.


Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14
What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16
So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


Also, if you take the 5-point Calvinist view, isn't it the ultimate expression of hate for God to elect some for Heaven while leaving the rest to be damned to Hell?

 

Maybe not, but you do need an English and History lesson!
You wrote, "John 3:16-18 "For God so loved the world,... It is funny how you don't post the rest of the sciptures. Buddy, you have to read on. God lovED the world, can YOU see that? "

When John penned that, it was years after Christ died. So it was past tense when he wrote it. The question is when did God love sinners. Here's the answer:
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

If God doesn't love sinners, then He doesn't exist for the Bible says God is Love.

BTW you asked why he created hell? he did made it for the devil and his angels.

GOD LOVES SINNERS!
You my friend need to repent of your selfish pride!

 

***Personal insult removed***

[ November 03, 2005, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

Moderator's warning!!

Parties on both sides of the issue MUST cease from personal insults---inflammations--and attacks or face the possibility of suspension of posting priviledges.

It is clear from many of the posts---on both sides of the issue here--that the precious fruit of the Spirit is not being clearly exemplified---"But the fruit of the Spirit is l-o-v-e"--emphasis is mine

Thank you!

Bro. David

 

I, for one, will apologize for my unkind attitude.

I still believe whole heartidly that God loves sinners. If I didn't believe that then I would throw up my hands and quit.

The very fact that a Christian would say that he doesn't makes me righteously indignant.

But I have to realize that i should speak the truth in love.

The Church (people not building) should be a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for saints.

We are called to restore relationships.
And the primary one is the sinner to God.

Yes God loves the sinner, and is waiting with open arms for you to come to Him through faith in what He did on Calvary. Christ died for you so you would not have to spend an eternity in Hell. He shed his precious blood for your sins.
And upon accepting this gift from God you are forever saved from hell.
If that isn't love, then what is?

 

perhaps it should be mentioned that love does NOT mean 'feeling good about' the person. God obviously does not feel good about the person who murders, lies, steals, etc. But God still cares for that person and will do everything possible for him or her.

That is how we are to be. You don't have to feel good about someone to do the best you can for them. It's harder when you don't feel good about them, but not impossible.

For God so loved the world He gave His one and only Son...

It couldn't have 'felt' good...

 

Jesus said: "Do not judge, lest you be judged yourselves." Matthew 7:1, NASB

Anger, is at times the seat
from where one judges others! (this is not from trhe Bible, it's my statement)

Be angry, and yet do not sin, do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. Ephesians 4:26-27

 

Taken out of context.

 

I agree with Helen, and in this context it may do well to realize that God is Spirit. He is a being without emotions. He doesn't cry like a baby. He doesn't get angry and throw temper-tantrums.
The emotions of man, normally attributed to God in the Bible: wrath, anger, joy, etc., are not emotions that God has. He doesn't jump up and down clicking his heals together and clapping his hands for joy.
God is Spirit; they that worship Him must worship him in Spirit and in truth.

The emotions that are in the Bible that describe God, are put there for man's understanding of God. They are much like anthropormorphisms. If God was an emotional being then God would not be immutable (unchangeable). We would be serving a moody, emotional God. But we don't. Wrath and anger only describe God from man's point of view. They describe his attribute of justice. God is a just God. Justice and holiness are two of his attributes, often described to us with adjectives like wrath and anger. But God does not have those human emotions. He does not change. He is immutable--unchangeable--the same, yesterday, today and forever. He is the same God of love that has existed and will exist from all eternity. That love was not an emotion. That love was so demonstrated to us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
DHK

 

I object to this line of reasoning DHK.

I don't believe the following use of the word "wrath" is an "anthropormorphism".

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

HankD