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God hearkens unto man.

J

jonathan.borland

Active Member
There are many passages in the Bible that speak of God hearkening to the voice of man and bringing things about based on his earnest petitions. Are we to understand that these hearkenings took place in eternity past based on God's foreknowledge and that he formed his sovereign plan based on real interactions with his creations made in his own likeness with will, emotion, intellect, etc.? I'm thinking of the countless real answers to prayer, God prolonging the day, not destroying the Israelites after Moses' intercession, turning from the wrath he intended due to humble repentance, etc. I'm interested in both the Cal and non-Cal perspective.
 
T

Tom Butler

New Member
John Piper wrote on prayer and God's sovereignty in an article back in 1976. Let me tease you with this paragraph:
What I am saying is that it is not the doctrine of God's sovereignty which thwarts prayer for the conversion of sinners. On the contrary, it is the unbiblical notion of self-determination which would consistently put an end to all prayers for the lost. Prayer is a request that God do something. But the only thing God can do to save a lost sinner is to overcome his resistance to God. If you insist that he retain his self-determination, then you are insisting that he remain without Christ. For "no one can come to Christ unless it is given him from the Father" (John 6:65,44).
Click to expand...

Here's the entire article:
http://www.fivesolas.com/prov_pra.htm

I know this doesn't deal with all the things Jonathan mentioned in the OP, but it's a good start.
 
J

jonathan.borland

Active Member
From the Piper article you cited:

"In other words, just as God will see to it that His Word is proclaimed as a means to saving the elect, so He will see to it that all those prayers are prayed which He has promised to respond to."

So to Piper it sounds like the biblical terminology of God hearkening to the voice of a man is actually not biblical at all.

As for praying for the lost, why the forced simplistic bifurcation into either God-determinism or self-determinism?
 
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