God Honouring Worship

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Joshua Rhodes:
Very interesting... Scott and Enda. I'm very intrigued by both your arguments.

Read my reply with your Bible open and examine closely the verses in question that are used. So many of them are taken completely out of context, it is not funny.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

I have been Scott...

 

[Eric B]

As for the "scripture' argument, as Superdave had said here a while back: "The reason we do not post scripture left and right, is because much of what is posted as scripture we agree with, it is the philosophy of man that has been extrapolated from the few scriptures that reference music that we have to spend most of our time dealing with. There is no discussion in scripture of styles of music... There is only our own imagined theories on what they must be talking about in the verses. It's amazing to me, that even some of the best Bible expositers throw caution to the wind when interpreting scriptural principles about music. They would never make up so much nonsense about any other area of scripture, but they squish the scriptures into their own mold, and declare the 'truth' about Godly music." I then added: "I myself have always thought that arguments such as this are more about what the Bible does not say, so that is why we end up 'having' less scripture. Instead, scripture winds up being used most by those trying to read something into them".

The article posted has some good points, but the problem is, as usual, defining the "old paths" in terms of 100, 200 or 400 year old worship and music styles, and the arguments on beats and rhythms. As Scott showed, the bringng in of "contemporary" styles occurred back then as well (and in fact, Horton in Beyond Culture Wars how the 19th century revivals (that much of "traditional worship/music is shaped by), was widely influenced by people like PT Barnum! He, along with McArthur and others point out much of the songs were just as "shallow" and "man-centered". But now, since it is the "traditional old" style, it is assumed to be the biblical "old path". This is why this debate is going nowhere.

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Joshua Rhodes:
I have been Scott...

Cool! Thanks!

 

[DanielFive]

quote:

"Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."

True conviction will lead to true conversion! It is God’s Word and power that will produce true conversions, not a carnival atmosphere! The more you use the methods of the world, the less of the power of God you will have in the ministry. You might get people who are loyal to the pastor and the church, but they will still not be saved!

Scott:
Wow! You’d be surprised at how many people truly become broken – who understand their uncleanliness… and they go to the same churches that the author is lambasting. How can that be? Hmmm….

Don’t see anything here that is not personal opinion or that can be proven.

The world wants “their music”. So is it alright for us to put some “Christian lyrics” to their melodies?!

Scott:
Luther did it.

Uummmm, if Luther committed a sin does that make it not a sin. Can we blindly follow Luther, was he without sin?

quote:

They say this will draw a crowd. God says He is not the author of confusion. Worldly beats and melodies with godly lyrics: how confusing is that?!

Scott:
Show me one non-Christian in our time who says that this is confusing. The only people that this is confusing to are people who do not want to leave their 1950’s mentality.

If I could I would show you a 20 year-old colleague called Ciaran. He recently purchased a CD by ‘christian’ artists P.O.D. I thought this would open a door for me to witness to him. I told him P.O.D. were a christian band, he laughed and didn’t believe me for a while. He wanted to know what the word ‘Ja’ meant, he said they used this word a lot. Other than that he couldn’t make out most of their lyrics, because he said the music was so prominent that it drowned out the lyrics. He said “How could they be Christians making music like that”

What could I say? I pointed out that Christians were not above sin or temptation and hoped that I hadn’t done irreparable damage to my witness to him.

This young lad is a Roman Catholic and as such knows about the christian values of reverence, Godliness and the holy life.

P.O.D undoubtedly left him confused.

quote:

King David had a tremendous orchestra and singers to praise the LORD, but he required them to be sanctified for the LORD. Christian music is not to entice a crowd, but to worship God! It is not to keep the carnal coming, but to praise the LORD. Why does our “worship music” have to please man? Isn’t the sole purpose to glorify God?!

Scott:
It doesn’t have to please men. But if worship is truly done well, a significant by-product may be that the Spirit works in the lives of the unsaved.

We are required to worship in spirit and in truth, from the heart. Wheather it sounds good is totally irrelevant. If this was important, as it may have been in OT times then we would be bringing in the finest musicians we could find regardless of wheather they were Christians or not.

It is unscriptural to use music as a tool to reach the lost. Music is referred to over 800 times in Scripture. Never once was it used for evangelism, always for worship.

quote:

What does God mean when He says a “new song”? Does He want you to write new lyrics every time you sing? I don’t think so. Rather, God wants you to sing (now that you are a new creature in Christ), not the old song of the world, but a new song with the words, the melody and the heart directed to the LORD?

Scott:
Interesting story: I had the blessing of sharing the gospel of Christ to one of my 8th graders who had been a church-goer all of her life. Her name is Sarah. She is in Ohio for the summer, so we carried on a long conversation through instant messenger. While we were “talking,” and the Spirit was definitely moving in her life, I began calling some of my Christian friends asking them to begin praying. To make a long story short, she got saved! She asked, “What now?” I told her to read Psalms 100 out loud as a praise to God. She did and wrote me, “That’s amazing!! I understand what worship is now! How cool is that?” Sarah understood what the new song is.

Yeah, interesting story, All praise to the Lord for winning this young soul.

But what has it got to do with this? The Psalm speaks of singing as a form of worship.

quote:

Churches are no longer directing their music solely to God, but are trying to make it palatable to the unregenerate mind. We know this because when the Church was filled with people who loved God, our music was only for the LORD! We have people rocking and rapping for Jesus simply because we are trying to please men, not Christ. Worship means that God is “worthy” for us to separate ourselves from the world to praise Him, pray to Him and learn of Him.

Scott:
Another huge non-sequitur.

quote:

In John chapter 6, our LORD feeds the 5000 and then enters into a discourse on the “Bread of Life.” The response was,

Jesus knew they did not believe and were offended at His Word, so He told them the very thing that drove them away! He did not lighten up on preaching to keep those carnally minded people holding on (though He could have had better attendance if HE did).

Scott:
The gospel by nature is offensive. It says that “I’m broken, and the only thing that can fix it is God.”

So why insist in setting it to rock music to make it less offensive? That is your whole argument, that today’s young people won’t come to hear preaching so you must use music to draw them in. Jesus would not have compromised in this way.

quote:

He could have had the apostles break out in a worldly tune with some Christian lyrics; then the five thousand, who only followed Him because their flesh was satisfied, might have continued coming to church! Or perhaps our LORD could have had a couple of apostles do skits to keep them from leaving. This almost sounds blasphemous to suggest! But, no, our LORD knows who the true “believers” are; thus, His doctrine and His methods drive away those who do not truly believe!

Scott:
Take a closer look at the Bible! Jesus chose to meet 5,000 men (plus the women and children) and meet their physical needs. Did all of them believe? Absolutely not! What was he doing then? Well, they didn’t leave. AND they hung around to hear the message! The position that the author takes does not jive with what we see Jesus Christ doing. And isn’t that the bottom line? Is Christ not our example here?

So by providing CCM you are meeting their physical needs?, what’s your point here, I honestly don’t get it.

quote:

How then can we use entertainment to keep those whom the LORD drives away. Know you not that

You can see from these scriptures that being “all things to all men ”(1 Corinthians 9:22) is not making the ministry palatable to the unregenerate! In 1 Corinthians 9:22, Paul says

"To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak; I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

Does this passage indicate that becoming “all things to all men” is to sing popular music, put on plays and not preach the whole counsel of God? Have you read the ministry of Paul in the New Testament lately? Nowhere in the New Testament nor in the Old Testament does any man of God do those things!

Scott:
Of course, nowhere do we see these people using microphones, organs, the English language and on and on and on, but most churches will use these. Why are these okay, while other methods to share the Gospel not okay? Where is the Biblical proof here?

None of these things distract from the Word. I also contend that where an organ is used it should be very much in the background only. I would have no objections to using say an acoustic guitar in the same way. It is not the instrument that distracts people from the Word, it is the way it is played.

quote:
"Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." (Acts 20:26-27)

Paul preached all the Word boldly, because he knew that real believers know that it is God’s Word.

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." (Deuteronomy 4:2)

God have mercy on us if we are afraid to preach God’s Word because we are afraid that we are going to lose our crowd!

Scott:
Any pastor who is afraid to preach the gospel should be disbarred.

As should any minister who squeezes his sermon into 10 minutes in the middle of 90 minutes of music.

quote:

Worship is for true believers! Our LORD knew who would be offended, but did not use entertainment to keep them coming. We convince ourselves that we use entertainment just because we want people to come and find the LORD. Christ told them the very truth that caused the unbelievers to leave. God’s church is to be holy. We are never more loving or kind than our LORD. Salvation is of the LORD. Only God can save, and He does not need worldly entertainment to save them. We worship God in the beauty of His Holiness (separate from the world).

Scott:
Actually, God has invited man to have a part in the salvation of others. Sometimes Christ said things that caused unbelievers to leave. Sometimes, he did things that caused the unbelievers to stay and listen some more.

So now you are telling me that salvation is not all of Christ.

I am to take it that you agree with the remainder of the original article?

I hope you can follow this post OK, it took me ages to try to make it as readable as possible. Maybe we should deal with one or two points at a time.

God Bless

Enda

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by enda:
Don’t see anything here that is not personal opinion or that can be proven.

I'll find some stats for you. Can I use Rick Warren?

Uummmm, if Luther committed a sin does that make it not a sin. Can we blindly follow Luther, was he without sin?

So you admit that some of our great hymsn or the faith are sinful? Just so I can follow...

If I could I would show you a 20 year-old colleague called Ciaran. He recently purchased a CD by ‘christian’ artists P.O.D. I thought this would open a door for me to witness to him. I told him P.O.D. were a christian band, he laughed and didn’t believe me for a while. He wanted to know what the word ‘Ja’ meant, he said they used this word a lot. Other than that he couldn’t make out most of their lyrics, because he said the music was so prominent that it drowned out the lyrics.He said “How could they be Christians making music like that”

What could I say? I pointed out that Christians were not above sin or temptation and hoped that I hadn’t done irreparable damage to my witness to him.

This young lad is a Roman Catholic and as such knows about the christian values of reverence, Godliness and the holy life.

POD isn't a Christian band. They're more Rastafarian in nature. Let's more the spectrum to praise and worship music. Is there anyone who has been confused about the lyrical content of a song like "Breathe?"

P.O.D undoubtedly left him confused.

POD isn't Christian.

We are required to worship in spirit and in truth, from the heart.

You added to the Scripture here, by the way.

Wheather it sounds good is totally irrelevant. If this was important, as it may have been in OT times then we would be bringing in the finest musicians we could find regardless of wheather they were Christians or not.

In OT times, they brought in believers who were the finest at their craft. THey did not bring pagans to lead the worship. That is important.

It is unscriptural to use music as a tool to reach the lost. Music is referred to over 800 times in Scripture. Never once was it used for evangelism, always for worship.

Argument from silence. Logical fallacy.

Yeah, interesting story, All praise to the Lord for winning this young soul.

But what has it got to do with this? The Psalm speaks of singing as a form of worship.

Wrong. Singing is a type of worship. If you place singing as the only type of worship, you miss the boat completely. Our lives are to be living sacrifices - that is our true act of worship.

So why insist in setting it to rock music to make it less offensive? That is your whole argument, that today’s young people won’t come to hear preaching so you must use music to draw them in. Jesus would not have compromised in this way.

No, that is not my whole argument - this is why you miss the point. Music is not meant to draw people in. We should be going out into the world, and bringing non-Christians in. You've completely missed everything.

So by providing CCM you are meeting their physical needs?, what’s your point here, I honestly don’t get it.

Then read it again carefully.

None of these things distract from the Word.

Neither does praise and worship music.

I also contend that where an organ is used it should be very much in the background only. I would have no objections to using say an acoustic guitar in the same way. It is not the instrument that distracts people from the Word, it is the way it is played.

interestingly enough, the only ones who find that the music is distracting are those who are opposed to it in the first place. It's not a sound issue - it's a heart issue.

As should any minister who squeezes his sermon into 10 minutes in the middle of 90 minutes of music.

10 minutes is nowhere near enough time to do the Word justice, but I've never heard of a church where this is so.

So now you are telling me that salvation is not all of Christ.

Salvation is all of God. But God has given man a responsibility to preach the gospel to all the world (Acts 1:8).

I am to take it that you agree with the remainder of the original article?

I showed you specifically what I agreed with and what I disagreed with. The better question is: Are you prepared to concede the arguments that dealt with your Scriptures being ripped out of their apporpriate context. If you do concede them, then you pretty much lose this argument.

I would say that the Scriptural points are more important that what you focused on, but whatever.

 

[DanielFive]

I'll find some stats for you. Can I use Rick Warren?

Use anyone you like, just as long as you can prove that he/she can read hearts. As I told you before its not a question of numbers, its a question of true repentance brought about by the Holy Spirit using the Word to convict sinners.

So you admit that some of our great hymns or the faith are sinful? Just so I can follow...

You say Luther did it, yet you provide no evidence, am I supposed to take your word for it, knowing your bias. If you want to sidestep the real issue by discussing Luther, start a new thread. I'll be happy to discuss it once you provide the source of this claim.

POD isn't a Christian band. They're more Rastafarian in nature.

POD isn't Christian.

POD may now be a mainstream band, but all their members are professing Christians and in their early days they toured with CCM artists. Lets not get sidetracked by debating on POD, there are two other threads on this forum relating to the band.

Let's move the spectrum to praise and worship music.

I sense you are running for cover. Lets not move the spectrum at all. I'll be happy to focus on Praise and Worship once you concede that a Christian has no right to bring CCM/Rock music and particularly secular music (eg.Backstreet Boys) into the church in order to be pagan-friendly.

You added to the Scripture here, by the way.

I wasn't quoting Scripture verbatim, when I do I always quote Chapter and Verse. As those who are familiar with Scripture will know, I was paraphrasing John 4:24 and Ephesians 5:19b. In no way have I added to Scripture.

In OT times, they brought in believers who were the finest at their craft. THey did not bring pagans to lead the worship. That is important.

When building the temple Soloman choose the best artists known in his day ie.the Phonecians. (See 2 Chronicles 2)

Argument from silence. Logical fallacy.

Wow! 0/800 thats a deafening silence, isn't it.
I think you're the one with the fallacious argument here.

Wrong. Singing is a type of worship. If you place singing as the only type of worship, you miss the boat completely. Our lives are to be living sacrifices - that is our true act of worship.

I didn't say singing was the only form of worship.

No, that is not my whole argument - this is why you miss the point. Music is not meant to draw people in. We should be going out into the world, and bringing non-Christians in. You've completely missed everything.

I've not missed anything, you want to use music to make non-converted pagans feel confortable in church. We are to bring non-christians to Christ, not into the meeting of believers. We meet together to worship God, by trying to cater to non-believers during this meeting you are losing sight of the purpose of the meeting.

Our instruction is to "go out" not to "bring them in".

It is not wrong or sinful to invite a non-believer to church but it is wrong when you try to make the service appealing to them rather than keeping the focus on the worship of God. You cannot please a Holy God and an unregenerate man at the same time.

Then read it again carefully.

Of course Christ is our example, he was without sin.

Neither does praise and worship music.

Running for cover again. What about the Backstreet Boys.

interestingly enough, the only ones who find that the music is distracting are those who are opposed to it in the first place. It's not a sound issue - it's a heart issue.

I think this statement is completely backwards. The only people who care about true worship are those whose hearts are right. Those who want to worship in spirit and in truth obviously want a less aesthetic form of worship than those who don't care.

10 minutes is nowhere near enough time to do the Word justice, but I've never heard of a church where this is so.

Fair enough, what is the service at your Church like?. You have never told me what church you attend, do they have a website?

Salvation is all of God. But God has given man a responsibility to preach the gospel to all the world (Acts 1:8).

Yeah, go out and preach it.

I showed you specifically what I agreed with and what I disagreed with. The better question is: Are you prepared to concede the arguments that dealt with your Scriptures being ripped out of their apporpriate context. If you do concede them, then you pretty much lose this argument.

You commented on some of the article and ignored some of the article. By the way I'm not concerned about 'winning an argument' my concern is only that as Christians we should both be obedient to the Word of God. Hopefully we can come to an agreement.

God Bless

Enda

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by enda:
Use anyone you like, just as long as you can prove that he/she can read hearts. As I told you before its not a question of numbers, its a question of true repentance brought about by the Holy Spirit using the Word to convict sinners.

Since neither of us can read hearts and understand true repentance, then we're at an impasse. What I can offer is my own personal experience as well as those who I interact with on at least a weekly basis.

You say Luther did it, yet you provide no evidence, am I supposed to take your word for it, knowing your bias. If you want to sidestep the real issue by discussing Luther, start a new thread. I'll be happy to discuss it once you provide the source of this claim.

White - Opening the Front Door, 2002

POD may now be a mainstream band, but all their members are professing Christians and in their early days they toured with CCM artists. Lets not get sidetracked by debating on POD, there are two other threads on this forum relating to the band.

See what they say now. They are not Christian, any more than Creed is.

O sense you are running for cover. Lets not move the spectrum at all. I'll be happy to focus on Praise and Worship once you concede that a Christian has no right to bring CCM/Rock music and particularly secular music (eg.Backstreet Boys) into the church in order to be pagan-friendly.

I assume that the Backstreet Boys is referring to our using them during the mission trip. That was not a worship service, btw. It was used to reach out to the community. There are two different types of CCM, those that are designed to be used in church for worship and those that are not. Why not let us focus on those that are designed to be used in church? (Most of these songs would be classified as Praise and Worship.)

I wasn't quoting Scripture verbatim, when I do I always quote Chapter and Verse. As those who are familiar with Scripture will know, I was paraphrasing John 4:24 and Ephesians 5:19b. In no way have I added to Scripture.

You still mixed the Scriptures, I would say, but it's really a moot point.

When building the temple Soloman choose the best artists known in his day ie.the Phonecians. (See 2 Chronicles 2)

WHere in II Chronicles do you see Solomon bringing in "hired musicians" to lead worship? IN fact, if you read a couple of chapters later, you see that those who led in worship were consecrated before playing their instruments. AND they were all priests.

Wow! 0/800 thats a deafening silence, isn't it.
I think you're the one with the fallacious argument here.

An argument from silence is where the one arguing assumes that if a source is silent than it is obviously false. (And we've been over the fact that I addressed all of your Scriptures by showing you others and by correcting where you ripped them out of context. Just because you repeat yourself does not make a statement less false.)

I didn't say singing was the only form of worship.

I read you wrong. The point, though, is that this young girl was able to experience worship through the reading of the Word. That was the "new song" to her.

I've not missed anything, you want to use music to make non-converted pagans feel confortable in church. We are to bring non-christians to Christ, not into the meeting of believers. We meet together to worship God, by trying to cater to non-believers during this meeting you are losing sight of the purpose of the meeting.

I don't believe that the purpose of music is to make non-converted pagans feel comfortable in church. I do want to bring Christians to church. We do meet together to worship God. By inviting non-Christians to church, we are NOT losing sight of the purpose. DOes that help you?

Our instruction is to "go out" not to "bring them in".

They will not come in if we do not go out.

It is not wrong or sinful to invite a non-believer to church but it is wrong when you try to make the service appealing to them rather than keeping the focus on the worship of God. You cannot please a Holy God and an unregenerate man at the same time.

First you say, "Our instruction is to 'go out' instead of 'bring them 'in,'" then you say, "It is not wrong or sinful to invite a non-believer to church." Which is it? Did you know that it is possible that God can be worshipped completely and truly WHILE God speaks to an unsaved person? It really is.

Of course Christ is our example, he was without sin.

Then are you eating at the homes of non-believers?

Running for cover again. What about the Backstreet Boys.

Just trying to stay on topic. The Backstreet BOys music was on a different forum for a reason. We weren't worshipping to the Backstreet Boys.

I think this statement is completely backwards. The only people who care about true worship are those whose hearts are right. Those who want to worship in spirit and in truth obviously want a less aesthetic form of worship than those who don't care.

Sshhhh... Let me tell you a secret... One of the main reasons that people such as David Crowder, Chris Tomlin, and Ross King write the songs that they do is because they care about true worship.

Ironically, people find satisfaction and beauty in hymns just as others find satisfaction and beauty in praise and worship choruses.

Fair enough, what is the service at your Church like?. You have never told me what church you attend, do they have a website?

Blended. It's an awful lot like Joshua Rhodes' church. We worship in song for about 30-45 minutes, using a blended service. Usually there is a drama that directly ties into the pastor's message. The pastor then preaches for about 30 mintues.

When I lead worship for the youth, we play about 75% praise and worship and 25% hymns for about 30 minutes, I speak for about 20-30 minutes. We usually have some experiential stuff thrown in, as they are students. We vary things a lot, too.

Yeah, go out and preach it.

I do.

\You commented on some of the article and ignored some of the article. By the way I'm not concerned about 'winning an argument' my concern is only that as Christians we should both be obedient to the Word of God. Hopefully we can come to an agreement.

WHat did I ignore? I addressed everything of relevance. I snipped some of the Scriptures for space' sake, but I did note that I agreed with it - if I disagreed, I gave reason why.

Again, you dismissed more than a few references where I showed that the author used that were ripped out of its context. Can we assume that you concede those points, and the Scriptures indeed do not say what the author posited them to say?

 

[DanielFive]

Scott,

I haven't had time to think about this today, I'll get back to you asap.

God Bless

Enda

 

[DanielFive]

White - Opening the Front Door, 2002

Thats another debate, not really relevant here anyway. I've never heard of White by the way. Is he from the new-wave site?

You still mixed the Scriptures, I would say, but it's really a moot point.

Don't think I done anything wrong here. You are getting a bit petty.

WHere in II Chronicles do you see Solomon bringing in "hired musicians" to lead worship? IN fact, if you read a couple of chapters later, you see that those who led in worship were consecrated before playing their instruments. AND they were all priests.

Fair point, I'll have a look at this.

An argument from silence is where the one arguing assumes that if a source is silent than it is obviously false.

What's it called when the source is silent and the one arguing thinks it is obviously true?

I read you wrong. The point, though, is that this young girl was able to experience worship through the reading of the Word. That was the "new song" to her.

That's to be commended.

I don't believe that the purpose of music is to make non-converted pagans feel comfortable in church. I do want to bring Christians to church. We do meet together to worship God. By inviting non-Christians to church, we are NOT losing sight of the purpose. DOes that help you?

Yes, if you are being sincere. This is not what comes across in your posts.

They will not come in if we do not go out.

First you say, "Our instruction is to 'go out' instead of 'bring them 'in,'" then you say, "It is not wrong or sinful to invite a non-believer to church." Which is it? Did you know that it is possible that God can be worshipped completely and truly WHILE God speaks to an unsaved person? It really is.

I accept I wasn't clear enough here. We 'go out' with the Word, after they are converted we 'bring them into fellowship'. If they choose to visit the church before they are converted it is obviously wrong to close the door in their face, they should be met with a hospitable response which is our Christian duty. However we shouldn't change the order of service in an effort to make them feel less spiritually uncomfortable.

Then are you eating at the homes of non-believers?

Yes, but I respect anyone whose conscience wouldn't allow it.

Just trying to stay on topic. The Backstreet BOys music was on a different forum for a reason. We weren't worshipping to the Backstreet Boys.

No you weren't worshipping God, that's for sure.
Don't you believe we are to be holy seven days a week?

Blended. It's an awful lot like Joshua Rhodes' church. We worship in song for about 30-45 minutes, using a blended service. Usually there is a drama that directly ties into the pastor's message. The pastor then preaches for about 30 mintues.

When I lead worship for the youth, we play about 75% praise and worship and 25% hymns for about 30 minutes, I speak for about 20-30 minutes. We usually have some experiential stuff thrown in, as they are students. We vary things a lot, too.

I had a look at your website. Very good.

I do.

I certainly commend you for this aspect of your work and pray that the Lord would use the preaching of the Gospel to bring many more young people to Christ through your ministry.

WHat did I ignore? I addressed everything of relevance. I snipped some of the Scriptures for space' sake, but I did note that I agreed with it - if I disagreed, I gave reason why.

Again, you dismissed more than a few references where I showed that the author used that were ripped out of its context. Can we assume that you concede those points, and the Scriptures indeed do not say what the author posited them to say?

Confession time, I seem to have missed two of your four original posts. You seem to have dealt with all of the article so I apologise for accusing you of ignoring some of it.

I'll have a look at your earlier posts again.

Scott, I honestly don't know if there is anything to be gained by further discussion on this subject. We obviously have different viewpoints and there are people on the Board who share both your view and mine.

I accept your right to believe what you want to believe, I also accept that you do give consideration to my views. However I haven't changed my mind and I'm not sensing that you are about to change yours.

Both articles stand side-by-side on the board, people are capable of making up their own minds as to what they believe. I don't want to give you or anyone else the impression that I am shoving my opinions down your throat.

I sensed how upset you were at Aaron's response to you in the Pagan-friendly Worship thread so I think it would be best if we leave this debate here.

You are welcome to the last word on the subject.

I hope you will share my desire to avoid any ill-feeling or hostility.

In Christ,

Enda

 

[ScottEmerson]

There isn't much to say, so your post can be the last word on this subject, I suppose (but there will be others, of course!)

If you'd like to address the other two posts, please do.

 

[DanielFive]

I'll leave it for now Scott, I've got a lot on over the next week or two. As you say we'll cross swords again shortly.

Thanks for the discussion.

God Bless

Enda