It might seem that way to you, but to virtually every Christian this verse is abundantly clear.
Once again your theology is way off.
This is a positive statement about Gods purpose in the salvation of the elect, worldwide,
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God is absolute.
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Once again your theology is way off.
This is a positive statement about Gods purpose in the salvation of the elect, worldwide,
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Romans 9 applies to them too.
Jer.1:5....is not arbitrary.
Psalm 139:14-17...is not arbitrary
Romans 9....is Romans 9
Titus 2....is Titus2
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
But you reject Paul. As long as you do Romans 9 will not justify your position.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
So? Why did God save you? Paul says you are arbitrarily made from the SAME lump.
I do not reject Paul.
I do reject your false ideas that you attempt to inject into passages by way of eisegesis.
I reject your use of 1689 in your name when you deny what the 1689 teaches.
I do not think you understand Rom9, or Titus2.
Reading reformed theology in the flesh, and twisting it, causes the way of truth to be evil spoken of.
Your professed beliefs are not really found anywhere in any confession of faith, or in any reformed teaching that I am aware of.
You can believe whatever you want, but such error I will oppose, more than I would the daily error of the anti Cal posse who oppose themselves everyday.
They do not know what they do not know.
You have posted that you do know, when it looks like you do not see what you post that you do profess.
You are coming after any Cal.who are with one voice offering you correction.
Even none Cals have noticed this, and say the same exact thing.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Those interminable claims that faith = work are philosophical, not scriptural.
The scriptures do not present free will faith as being a work.
In fact Paul always contrasts faith and works.
Also, when the NT says salvation is not by works, it's in reference to the works of the law, it's not in the sense of "well free will faith means you had to do something, which is believe, so that's a work". This was Pelagius' contention, and the irony is that the Calvinists have adopted a Pelagian position by claiming that free will faith = work.
The scriptures do not present free will faith as being a work.
In fact Paul always contrasts faith and works.
Also, when the NT says salvation is not by works, it's in reference to the works of the law, it's not in the sense of "well free will faith means you had to do something, which is believe, so that's a work". This was Pelagius' contention, and the irony is that the Calvinists have adopted a Pelagian position by claiming that free will faith = work.
Because He loves me. That is not arbitrary.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
One lump of the same wretchedness, with one chunk damned and the other saved. Why? To glorify God's wrath and to glorify God's mercy. The purpose is not arbitrary, but the choice of lumps is. God is no respecter of persons.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
God hates sinners. He arbitrarily chose you as a hated sinner to display his mercy to the created order.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
His choice of sinners marked for damnation or marked for salvation is purely arbitrary. But to display his glory is not.
You make a defective caricature of the teaching.
God sets His love on those elected to be the objects of love and mercy.
All were viewed as fallen and dead in Adam.
God elected a multitude to be the objects of His saving love.
In choosing to save a multitude out of Israel God tells Moses;
Deut.7:6-26
His Covenant love was set on a multitude of sinners.
All the Father has given to the Son.
No more, no less
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If God loved those he elected, they get his glory. They were valuable. Do you need to show mercy to anyone you love? It's the people you hate that need mercy and in this, we see the fulness of God's mercy. Eventually, he turns us into people he can love subjectively.
You are not describing the biblical God who has an eternal purpose made known to the Church.Eph3.9-11
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Read that passage. It describes all that I'm speaking about. Also, the mercy of God is made known by the Church.
So we won a lottery? What a cold, dead husk of a god you serve.
The God I've read of in the Scriptures doesn't merely love His created order, He loves His creation, and because of that love, gave His only begotten Son.
It is true that God's love for me or anyone else is not due to anything lovely in us, but I have it on good authority that I was loved even when dead in sins.
Because in the illustration the "lump" is not created men, the "vessels" are.
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē
adjective. based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
God is not arbitrary. God does not make actions based on a random choice like flipping a coin or on a whim. God has a plan and a will.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Paul never used the term “arbitrary” concerning any activity of God. Just the opposite. God is always actively and purposefully bringing about His plan of redemption of a specific people that He has chosen for His purpose according to His will.
Even with the Romans passage concerning the molder of the clay. God specifically makes one for honorable use and one for common use. It does not say God made two lumps and then arbitrarily decided one to be honorable and one for common. God actively made the one for honorable use and actively made the other for common use; all according to His purpose and His plan.
Your theology is clearly contrary to… and fails the test….of scripture.
peace to you
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