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God is forbidden to . . . .
- Thread starter billwald
- Start date
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
God will NOT 'save' anyone who rejects His Son, Jesus Christ.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Your statements are all founded on a dangerously false premise. God is God; He is not forbidden by anyone. He has the ability to do anything He desires to do.billwald said:
The only thing that God will not do is go against His own word. God established the conditions for salvation, and now, any man who hopes to be saved must meet those conditions. It has absolutely nothing at all do with with God's ability or God's wants.
God was able to send His Son as the supreme sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. God is willing (wants) that all men be saved. He has made salvation possible for all men.
I am interested - how do you justify this idea that God can "do anything he desires to do". I am skeptical of this assertion, and therefore I think that the "best" choice of the options put forward by the OP is that God doesn't have the ability to save anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus.Pastor_Bob said:
I suggest that when God makes commitments to the universe being a certain way, He necessarily "closes some doors" even for Himself. By analogy, consider the design of a bicycle. If I design the bike for speed, I shut certain doors in respect to issue of comfort - the very nature of "reality" forbids us from having a super fast bike that is also very comfortable - these 2 goals are mutually incompatible.
This is just an analogy, the point being the rather obvious fact that, sometimes, if our universe is going have property A - it simply cannot have property B. Even God cannot make the sky blue and red (to give an oversimplified example of this principle).
Creation - even for God - involves commitments. And commitments close doors. So it would not surprise me at all that God's creation leaves no possible way to life that does not go through Jesus.
I see no reason to assume that God can do anything He wants to do.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Ps 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.Andre said:
Ps 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with His ability. It has everything to do with His nature and character. He will not violate His statues.
Why not?
Of course there is no other way. That still does not means that God can't; it just means that He won't.
Your argument is with the Word of God.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
Have you never seen a glorious sunset? What about when God turns the moon to blood red. Will the sky not be both blue and red then?
You don't have to assume anything, just read God's Word.
My Bible says...
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
Mark 10:27
You are dealing with finite things. God is infinite.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
I thought I did that in my last post. Scroll up 2 posts and read it.
Of course, the texts can be read as asserting that God can do anything. But I suggest that these texts need to be read in light of common sense.Pastor_Bob said:
Can God make the sky red and blue? I suggest that the answer is no.
Can God make Jerusalem and Austin Texas 10,000 miles apart and yet within a days walk of each other? I suggest that the answer is no.
Can God give man a measure of free will and yet retain full and sufficient causal agency in respect to every action of man? Again, I think the answer is rather clearly no.
And I suspect that the writers of scripture implicitly knew these limitations when they wrote the texts you refer to.
But the above examples seem pretty clear - God cannot do anything He wants to do.
The above bolded/italicized/underlined phrases indicate that you should rely less on "I" and more on "HIM".Andre said:
I don't mean to be rude, you are challenging some pretty specific words of His, that, when taken at face value, do not lead to the nebulous possibilities you envision.
Read the accounts of God manipulating the passage of the sun in 2Kings 20:9-11, Isaiah 38:8, and Joshua 10:12-13.
"Common sense" says that this is just allegory, indicating a perception of the warriors, but His word tells the episodes as fact - which do you accept??
If you accept that there are things that He cannot do, what assurance do you have that He can assure that you get to Heaven rather than Hell? Even the fact of your salvation is questionable if you can't trust Him to speak pure, unadulterated truth!
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Therein lies your problem. Common sense (human understanding) does not play a part in understanding the nature and character of God. His ways are not our ways; His thoughts are not our thoughts.Andre said:
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
You have now crossed the line into "foolish and unlearned" questions. The Scripture is clear that such are to be avoided.
2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Is it possible for one to be saved if they never hear the good news?
Marcia
Active Member
Andre said:
No one said it so I will: God cannot go against His nature. He cannot lie, for example. He cannot be needy. He cannot be imperfect. If God could go against His nature, then He would not be God.
God is also a God of order, reason, and logic. Therefore, I do not think God would make an illogical principle. For example, a square cannot be a circle.
billwald said:
I think it is dangerous grounds for us to say God is forbidden, or doesn't have the ability, nor desire, to do anything.
I don't care if it is for the sake of correct "doctrine". I think it is dangerous ground, and goes beyond what our mission on earth is to do.
I remember a quote I heard in college, it went like this:
Question: "What was God doing before the creation of the earth?"
Answer: "He was creating Hell for the over-curious."
It went something like that...but I think the principle is true. Don't get caught up in these kinds of questions.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Andre said:
Actually, He did. The majority elements in the sky scatter light so the blue continues on, the red goes off at a right angle. That means to those below, the sky looks bluer toward the place where the sun is. The rising sun makes the sky look red as does the setting sun.
Now red and blue stripes - that would be fun!