God is Good not Evil

[AndThisGospel]

Now, a tribe in Africa without a bible and without knowledge of the Christ. Can they be saved?

Of course not,[Personal attack edited]

 

[SovereignGrace]

Of course not,

Good. Now, what about the descendants that died never knowing the Christ's death, burial, and resurrection?

[Personal attack edited]

If you want to call a # that no man can # "four and no more", go for it...

[Personal attack edited]

God hates everybody that is outside of Christ. That was you and I pre-salvation. Ephesians 2:2-3]

[Personal attack edited]

Can you please stop with these insults?

 

[SovereignGrace]

What I am trying to show you is all the saved are justified by faith.[Romans 5:1] Faith comes by hearing the message, and the message is about the Christ.[Romans 10:17]

No one has faith outside the proclamation of the gospel. Seeing that faith comes from hearing it. Natural revelation is not the message about the Christ. It tells ppl there is a god. You can see that by all the idols in the world, even unto this day.

 

[AndThisGospel]

 

[AndThisGospel]

What I am trying to show you is all the saved are justified by faith.[Romans 5:1] Faith comes by hearing the message, and the message is about the Christ.[Romans 10:17]

Yes, and that message can be partial....God's hands are not bound. After all He has legally reversed our condemnation "in Adam" and justified all men unto life.

What about infants who die early? They can't even respond to God at that age. Too bad for them, huh? All those billions of aborted infants...so sorry....God is too weak to save them in His Son.

That's the problem with you [Personal attack edited].You have a limited atonement, which is pure heresy. It isn't the gospel and all of you are in danger of preaching "another gospel" and the curse that comes in doing that.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Revelation 7:9. Perhaps you would like to explain
1. How 'a great multitude that no man can number of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues' is actually 'very few.'
2. How that crowd is any bigger under Arminianism or Pelagianism than it is under Calvinism.

 

[AndThisGospel]

...No one has faith outside the proclamation of the gospel....

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

Rom 2:14 "...for when Gentiles, who do not have the law (the Torah - the Bible of the OT), by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness

Did you see that, "written in their hearts"? That's witnesses the new birth.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Revelation 7:9. Perhaps you would like to explain
1. How 'a great multitude that no man can number of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues' is actually 'very few.'
2. How that crowd is any bigger under Arminianism or Pelagianism than it is under Calvinism.

Good rebuttal...I'll give you that...

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, and that message can be partial....God's hands are not bound. After all He has legally reversed our condemnation "in Adam" and justified all men unto life.

What about infants who die early? They can't even respond to God at that age. Too bad for them, huh? All those billions of aborted infants...so sorry....God is too weak to save them in His Son.

That's the problem with you [Personal attack edited].You have a limited atonement, which is pure heresy. It isn't the gospel and all of you are in danger of preaching "another gospel" and the curse that comes in doing that.

You have to stop channeling Karl Barth on this, andget with what scriptures teach, as God did NOT reconcile all sinners back, but just the elect/saved in Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Revelation 7:9. Perhaps you would like to explain
1. How 'a great multitude that no man can number of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues' is actually 'very few.'
2. How that crowd is any bigger under Arminianism or Pelagianism than it is under Calvinism.

It would bemuch smaller, as in NONE saved....As sinners canot be saved in thir way of thinking, as per the scriptures!

 

[Yeshua1]

The only theology that gives real glory to God in His salvation!

 

[AndThisGospel]

The only theology that gives real glory to God in His salvation!

Okay...

 

[SovereignGrace]

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

Rom 2:14 "...for when Gentiles, who do not have the law (the Torah - the Bible of the OT), by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness

Did you see that, "written in their hearts"? That's witnesses the new birth.

Righteousness by faith. Yes. But faith comes from hearing the word of God, not via natural revelation.

'Written on their hearts' is reference to them knowing that lying, stealing, killing, being with their neighbor's spouse, is morally wrong. They know by their conscience it is wrong.

 

[AndThisGospel]

...But faith comes from hearing the word of God, not via natural revelation.

'Written on their hearts' is reference to them knowing that lying, stealing, killing, being with their neighbor's spouse, is morally wrong. They know by their conscience it is wrong.

You need to look at the rest of that quote:

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, not having the law, are a law unto themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts,....

Heb 8:10 "I will put My laws into their minds and write them on their hearts..." That's the NC promise.

Jesus said, "without Me you can do nothing (nothing good, that is)."

Therefore to "do... the things contained in the law" means that God had written His law of love into their hearts. This is the new birth experience.

 

[MennoSota]

As to those before Christ how was God revealed to them?

Jews:


You know, I have to correct myself...."All men" means "all men"....

So no women, no babies, no children. Only all men. Sounds misogynistic. [emoji41]

 

[SovereignGrace]

You need to look at the rest of that quote:

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, not having the law, are a law unto themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts,....

Heb 8:10 "I will put My laws into their minds and write them on their hearts..." That's the NC promise.

Jesus said, "without Me you can do nothing (nothing good, that is)."

Therefore to "do... the things contained in the law" means that God had written His law of love into their hearts. This is the new birth experience.

Man, through his conscience, knows it is wrong to kill, steal, destroy, rape, molest, take his neighbor's wife, &c. That is the context.

Those who never heard the gospel are void of faith, seeing it comes from the hearing the gospel/word of God.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Man, through his conscience, knows it is wrong to kill....That is the context.

You are partially right, but half truths are still untruths. [Personal attack edited]

Context: "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, not having the law, are a law unto themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts..." Rom 2:14,15

The above is more than just knowing wrong and right. These Gentiles, who didn't have the Old Testament Bible, learned about God through "the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead" (Rom 2:20) and were experiencing the fruits of that connection with God.

Heb 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

 

[AndThisGospel]

Context: "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, not having the law, are a law unto themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts..." Rom 2:14,15

The above is more than just knowing wrong and right. These Gentiles, who didn't have the Old Testament Bible, learned about God through "the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead" (Rom 2:20) and were experiencing the fruits of that connection with God.

Then you have another group of Gentiles, who, "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God" (Rom 1:21) and "exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator..." (verse 25). Their reject of God was shown in their actions. See verses 29-32

 

[MennoSota]

You are partially right, but half truths are still untruths. Lying by omission is lying by omitting certain facts.

Context: "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, not having the law, are a law unto themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts..." Rom 2:14,15

The above is more than just knowing wrong and right. These Gentiles, who didn't have the Old Testament Bible, learned about God through "the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead" (Rom 2:20) and were experiencing the fruits of that connection with God.

Heb 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Based upon your statement above, we can conclude that all men born into this world are immediately saved upon birth, since God writes his law on their hearts and remembers their sins no more. Thus all are saved. That is Universalim, which you are teaching. This means that all the Pharisees and Saducees as well as Nero and all others will be in heaven...if your interpretation of the passage in Romans and Hebrews is accurate.
Of course you will try to pretzel out of this, but you are presenting universalism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are partially right, but half truths are still untruths. [Personal attack edited]
Context: "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, not having the law, are a law unto themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts..." Rom 2:14,15

The above is more than just knowing wrong and right. These Gentiles, who didn't have the Old Testament Bible, learned about God through "the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead" (Rom 2:20) and were experiencing the fruits of that connection with God.

Heb 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, ” declares the LORD. “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”[Jeremiah 31:31-34]

But God found fault with the people and said : “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts.I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”[Hebrews 8:8-12]

Then you can also read this in Hebrews 10:16-17.

The context of those passages are those who God writes His laws upon are the saved, as those passages state He will no more remember their sins.

All have the law in their heart as they know it is wrong to kill, steal, lie, have their neighbor's spouse, &c.