God is in control but not all events are predetermined.

[Benjamin]

epistemaniac,
Well obviously then you would rather play proof text spitting games while throwing out insults instead of clarifying your position and haven’t learned much in your education and 6 years of defending your position about doing it in an edifying manner as I as a humble student had to point out to you we weren’t going to get anywhere the way we were preceding. You insinuated my faith as coming from common secular non-biblical beliefs for disagreeing with you unjustly and responded to my plea with the arrogance of “lol” and winks at my attempts. As for “aseity” I clearly used it in the context of self derived existence and your response was again shamefully rude, in my opinion, for being within your exalted maturity level. Lastly, my statement about where I stood in my walk was treated with contempt and more uncalled for accusations. I do apologize for my lack of experience concerning dealing with and expressing myself to others in the search for the truth for the mistakes that I have made.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
So He wants me to "love my enemies" while He rejoices in their demise. really? To give the Lord Glory and for Him to glory is two different things. Come on!!! the Scriptures you used don't say God is glorying in destruction of man.

BTW you used 179 words in bold and I used 14.

Brother Bob, you asked, "Where is the glory?" I showed you multiple verses where God was glorified in the destruction of the wicked. Who said anything about rejoicing? Calvinists don't think God is sadistic. We believe that God gets glory when He is merciful and that God gets glory when He judges in righteousness. This is the testimony of Scripture.

BTW, my bold words had nothing to do with screaming. They were to separate the verses from the point I was making from the verses. I views it without the bold and it was just a jumbled mess. The bold words implied no vitriol (to continue a theme!).

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by npetreley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Benjamin:
I find your definition of God’s sovereignty as lacking toward His complete ability to rule the world as He truthfully and originally designed it. God is in authority and that in itself makes Him sovereign and He does it within His truths. I find a lot of double talk in attempts to support the man made definitions of what God’s sovereignty must mean. See post below.

Sure, this is the typical free willer reply. God is sovereign, so if He wants to give man the free choice as to whether or not to be saved, that's His sovereign will being done.

Again, that's nothing but double-talk. The moment God turns over to man the key to salvation, He abdicates His throne on the issue. What you're saying amounts to "God sovereignly decided not to be sovereign in this decision." How silly can you get? You're just attributing the decision NOT to be sovereign to His sovereign will. You still end up with God not being sovereign. </font>[/QUOTE]You're just a wee-bit mixed up there. God lowers that scepter of Righteousness so that men can come to Him through Jesus/ The Scepter of Righteousness.

You seem to forget that the call is "come", not "go".

We all have to "come" to Jesus for salvation, we are not commanded to "go" to Jesus.

To "come" to anything is by the will to do so. That will must be changed by the person in control of that will to accept the invitation to come.

The ultimatim "must come" designates the way, the truth, and the life.

"Go" is a command that must be obeyed without regard to the will and can only mean that a path is laid before the subject to proceeed.

Now if you would change the words of the Bible, then your "arguement" might stand, but the you would be changing God's Word and His Sovereign intent/will.

The Gospel is The Invitation to "come" to salvation through Jesus Christ. It is not "The Command" to "go" to Jesus.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Salamander:
You're just a wee-bit mixed up there. [...] The Gospel is The Invitation to "come" to salvation through Jesus Christ. It is not "The Command" to "go" to Jesus.

Huh? Who are you talking to, and what are you talking about? What does your diatribe on coming and going (which includes a lot of unbiblical philosophical presuppositions, by the way) have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[Salamander]

Neither does the price of tea in China have anything to do with the call to repentence unto salvation.

We are commanded to repent so that we may come to salvation.

The ideal of Calvinism commands the soul to go to Jesus for salvation as in accordance as if the soul has no will of it's own.

"Go" is a command.

"Come unto me....." has now become "diatribe"

 

[npetreley]

Uh, whatever you say.

 

[Salamander]

No, it's what God said.

You have to formulate the Gospel to understand it. I don't, I just accept the call to come to Jesus.

You have to explain to God why He is Sovereign, I accept that He is and that His being Sovereign never delegates His authority to anyone to explain away the mystery of the Gospel and bring it down to man's comprehensive abilities as to explain it.

Either men are called to repentence unto salvation or the Bible is a lie.

deal with it.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Salamander:
No, it's what God said.

I don't know about that. Either way, I understand most of what God says in the Bible. Your post is a diatribe about "come" and "go" that doesn't have any connection whatsoever to the post to which you were responding.

Originally posted by Salamander:
Either men are called to repentence unto salvation or the Bible is a lie.

Men are called to repentence. There's no doubt about it. I don't see what that has to do with the discussion, but heck, you don't seem to care what the discussion is about.

Here's the point. When one says something on the order of, "It was God who sovereignly appointed man to be in charge of determining his own eternal destiny, therefore God is still sovereign," this is double-talk. You cannot "sovereignly abdicate your throne" and remain sovereign. The moment God says, "I'll leave it up to man to decide," God has relinquished His authority over the matter and is no longer sovereign over the issue of salvation.

I'd say "deal with it" but judging from the bizarre responses you've given, I don't get the impression you have any idea what "it" is.

 

[Brother Bob]

npetreley;
None of those Scriptues not even one said that God got Glory because man sinned and that was the question.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
npetreley;
None of those Scriptues not even one said that God got Glory because man sinned and that was the question.

Satan gets the glory of victory when a soul is lost,

God gets the glory of victory when a soul is saved,

As simple as this is, it's still too complicated for some to understand.

 

[doulous]

Satan gets the glory of victory when a soul is lost,

I would be grateful if you could support this with scripture?

 

[Paul of Eugene]

All things happen somewhere, sometime unless God prohibits them.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by doulous:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Satan gets the glory of victory when a soul is lost,

I would be grateful if you could support this with scripture? </font>[/QUOTE]

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

 

[Brother Bob]

Calvinist;
I was asking if my bold words offend you and if so I will not make them bold. Your bold words don't bother me at all.

BTW none of your Scriptures about the Glory of God does not state He gets Glory from someone who chooses to commit sin, and that was the question.

 

[doulous]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by doulous:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Satan gets the glory of victory when a soul is lost,

I would be grateful if you could support this with scripture? </font>[/QUOTE]

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: </font>[/QUOTE]Me, wonderful passage, but nowhere does it even hint that Satan gets the glory when a soul is lost.

 

[Rev. Lowery]

I am going to say the answer is 32 !!!!!!

WOOT I WIN !!

Q. What did I win?
A. Nothing because we cant truly know all the answers. I mean come on are we really that arrogant. The Bible clearly tells us we cant know the mind of God. Its foolish for us to think we can.

 

[doulous]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Calvinist;
I was asking if my bold words offend you and if so I will not make them bold. Your bold words don't bother me at all.

BTW none of your Scriptures about the Glory of God does not state He gets Glory from someone who chooses to commit sin, and that was the question.

Brother Bob, here is one:

Romans 3:4 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,

God, in His holiness, is true. Man, in his unrighteousness, is a liar. When man sins it underlines God's attributes even more. Or to put it another way, God's holiness (truthfulness) is noticed even more when man sins (lies). Therefore God gets the glory.

 

[Brother Bob]

doulous
Brother Bob, here is one:

Romans 3:4 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,

Jeepers doulous;
That does in no way say God is getting Glory out of man lying. I don't see you reasoning at all. That just says that God is true even if every man is found a liar.

 

[epistemaniac]

Originally posted by Rev. Lowery:
I am going to say the answer is 32 !!!!!!

WOOT I WIN !!

Q. What did I win?
A. Nothing because we cant truly know all the answers. I mean come on are we really that arrogant. The Bible clearly tells us we cant know the mind of God. Its foolish for us to think we can.

if we can't "truly" know any of the answers, then what are you doing putting a "rev" before your name? If God and His will is so unknowable it seems all the "reverends" out there would be out of work....

it might also be construed as arrogant to tell everyone else that you know.... FOR SURE... that no one can know any answers about God.... who are you to make this judgment regarding what everyone else's knowledge must be or not be?

blessings,
Ken

 

[doulous]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
doulous
Brother Bob, here is one:

Romans 3:4 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,

Jeepers doulous;
That does in no way say God is getting Glory out of man lying. I don't see you reasoning at all. That just says that God is true even if every man is found a liar. </font>[/QUOTE]Brother Bob, I think we disagree on how God is glorified. I believe God is glorified by the righteous and unrighteous. When man sins God receives the glory because it proves God is holy and righteous. The more man sins the more God's holiness is sin. Kind of like a lamp that shines more brightly the darker it is. No matter how dark it may be, the light shines brighter. That is how I see God receiving glory.