God Is Judging Our Nation That Forgets Him

[Revmitchell]

Furthermore, if we were to take your logic and transfer it to another arena, does the absence of hurricanes mean God is pleased with us?

Why would it have too.

 

[Hark]

Hark - Consider this scripture:

Jesus was confronted with people who were seeking to attribute conditions that never existed in the first place to a situation that was already in the past. They seemed to hold a belief that the people who died in the collapse of the tower of Siloam were somehow greater sinners than others to deserve such a fate.

Jesus warned them that all people were/are sinners, and that all stand in need of repentance. I'm not saying ignore the scripture. I'm just saying that it is not for us to say that any particular event is a part of God's judgement. We don't know if any event is part of God's judgment. The best we can do is pray for a fellow man. Remember, when it rains, the rain falls upon the just and the unjust. Good people aren't the only one's who get rain on their crops.

I hope that makes sense.

It does but my presentation wasn't on why the people of USA would be judged more than the people of other countries, but to show how when God had blessed a country, He can certainly remove the prosperity of that land because of the increase of the wickedness within.

Seeing how Babylon of Revelations 18th chapter is USA in my point of view, I can certainly see that God has given enough warning for what appears to be the inevitable judgment coming for the progress of the wickedness in this nation.

 

[Hark]

Assuming it is correct, it is only in recorded history... which is relatively short.

True, but we are taught to look for the signs of the times. And there are more than that than just an increase in forest fires.

 

[Hark]

A total misapplication of verses out of context. Where does it say this applies to 21st Century USA?

The verses below is just testifying to how God can remove the blessings of the land.

Psalm 107:33 He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground; 34 A fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein.

Revelations 18th chapter is my view opf what I believe He is helping me to see this as the coming eventual judgment on Babylon USA.

I cannot see how 1/3 rd of the earth to be burned up which is the entire western hemisphere, can be anywhere else in the world for the nations that are prophesied to rally against the Lord's coming in the valley of Armegeddon at the end of the great tribulation.

But that is just expounding on my point about how God is seemingly judging his nation by teh dought & forest fires within. One cannot say that a nation can become evil overnight; we can see how this nation is forgetting God.

 

[Hark]

Well over 75% of forest fires are man-made. I don't see how that could be considered a judgment from God. Furthermore, if we were to take your logic and transfer it to another arena, does the absence of hurricanes mean God is pleased with us?

Wow. Man-made? How did you know? I keep hearing on the national news as blaming it on drought and lightning.

This year's Atlantic hurricane season is shaping up to be one of the weakest in decades with only five named storms in the region so far this year. That is the fewest named storms since the full Atlantic season of 1983, when there were four. The 1994 season also had only five named storms into October, then two hurricanes formed in early November of that year.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/atlantic-hurricane-season-weakest-83-26049872

A quote from your link source:

"We've been very fortunate so far," said Dennis Feltgen, a meteorologist with the National Hurricane Center.

"It was expected to be a less than average season, and so far, that's panning out," Feltgen said, noting the peak period is about to end. "It takes a big slide in November."

Even though, overall it has been increasing and will continue to increase.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070730-hurricane-warming.html

July 30, 2007

The number of Atlantic hurricanes that form each year has doubled over the past century and global warming is largely to blame, according a new study.

However, the new study found the proportion of major hurricanes has fluctuated with a "remarkably constant period of oscillation" over the past century, Holland said. The oscillation appears to be a natural variability not associated with warming.

So while the storms' severity seems to fluctuate in a natural cycle, their frequency is on the rise, he explained.

Don't expect the hurricanes to decrease, brother.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

 

[go2church]

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

As a woman in labour, so will the signs be of His coming? Since God is coming to judge His House first, think the signs are for those that believe to prepare themselves to leave when the Bridegroom comes?

Can we say that there are more earthquakes now than ever? Can we say that there are more forest fires this year than any year prior?



How does that apply towards prophesy yet to come? How does God's judging the world as times goes by to be different because of the New Testament?

Psalm 107:33 He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground; 34 A fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein.

But that generation did pass? Now what?

Why does this apply to the USA, didn't even exist then?

If you go looking for signs you're bound to find them.

 

[righteousdude2]

A total misapplication of verses out of context. Where does it say this applies to 21st Century USA?

Where do any Scriptures say what century or people or age they are intended for MP? The scripture does not come with a "Best if Used By Date!" I understand the word to be applicable throughout the life of man while on earth.

 

[church mouse guy]

The West has always been dry and a lot of the water shortage in California is attributable to the environmentalists and is an artificial water shortage.

Nevertheless, sodomite marriage, the sole achievement of the Obama administration allied with the sodomite courts, has brought doom for the USA. You can write Ichabod on the USA.

 

[righteousdude2]

The West has always been dry and a lot of the water shortage in California is attributable to the environmentalists and is an artificial water shortage.

Nevertheless, sodomite marriage, the sole achievement of the Obama administration allied with the sodomite courts, has brought doom for the USA. You can write Ichabod on the USA.

I fear you are right on! It is not just Obama that brought this about. We have to go way back and blame the liberal teaching in our schools. Teaching that thought it was best to show another side of our nation, it's heros, it leaders, and history in general. the kids coming up under that liberal speakease has resulted in a disconnect with traditions and patriotism, and that has brought about many of our woes.

As for God, again, blame the liberal who saw no need for God in the national spotlight, removing prayer from school, and allowing atheist among others, to bring down what the church once stood for. These liberal have watered down the church to a point that liberals will only attend a church that tickles their itching ears, and if they hear the pure Gospel they call us fanantics and go ont thinking it is their liberal theology, the kind that accepts gay marriage among other things, that has helped to remove the effect of salt in the world!

 

[PreachTony]

True, but we are taught to look for the signs of the times. And there are more than that than just an increase in forest fires.

Consider this, though...

Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

The signs are there, sure, but I believe Jesus is warning us not to get too wrapped up in seeking after signs, and trying to apply meanings to certain events. I went to a ministry group night-hike a couple months back. We went to a mountaintop with members of the Atlanta Astronomical Society.

The leader of the ministry group gave a "brief" devotional about the stars and planets and he then proceeded to tell us why the tetrad (the four 'blood' moons) signify great and coming calamity for us all, leading to the collapse of the American economy, the rise of the Antichrist, and the rapture of the church. None of which was backed up scripturally. He was seeking after a sign to make the world around him fit his interpretation of scripture.

All I'm driving at is that we should exercise extreme caution when claiming certain things to be a "sign" of anything.

 

[Hark]

But that generation did pass? Now what?

No. Only part of Jesus's answers to His disciples' 3 questions in Matthew 24th chapter had passed. The part of when the Temple be thrown down had passed.

And the part about that son of perdition in the holy of holies of the Temple had not occurred yet; close, but not yet because he did not claim to be God. So the third Temple has yet to be built for this to occur.

Odds are that after the pre tribulational rapture, and the western hemisphere is burning up, Israel's enemies will make a peace treaty by allowing them to build the Temple.

And Israel has all the stuff ready to do it, the insides as well as the outside. They have the original outline of the former Temple and in spite of the Dome of the Rock, they can still build it fulfilling the prophesy as to how the outer court will belong to the Gentiles still.

Why does this apply to the USA, didn't even exist then?

Revelations 18th chapter; hence prophesy.

The tower at Babylon was about "let us make a name for ourselves" and USA is "We, the people.." daughter of Babylon; the one that merchants of the sea trade with that would stand afar off because of the plagues within her.

If you go looking for signs you're bound to find them.

Jesus said to watch for the signs. He also said that many believers will be caught unprepared too because they were not watching.

Luke 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Revelations 3:3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Revelations 16:15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Jesus is referring to different generations in answering those three questions from the disciples.

There will be a generation that will see the Temple He had spoken of that will be thrown down; there will be a generation that will see the falling away from the faith which will happen first; ( Matthew 24:23-42 ) and the generation that will see the abomination of desolation ( do note reference to Daniel the prophet in Matthew 24:15 for that third Temple during the great tribulation of ( Matthew 24:14-22 ).

Do note these verses that turns the time table around...

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Jesus spoke of the great tribulation that will never be so bad ever again, and so it has not happened yet.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

That's Jesus saying that the elect days shall be shortened as they will not see the great tribulation on earth because they will be taken from it. Proof is how Jesus goes into the signs of the times before the great tribulation which is the falling away from the faith.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

This is occurring in all of those "movements of the 'Spirit'" with "slain in the Spirit", Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto Blessings ( not in USA, I know, but is part of the western hemipshere that will be burned up as Babylon is testified of having other nations drink with her fornication defiling them with unclean birds ), and "holy laughter" movement; all saying that the Spirit of Christ is moving here or there and so believers go there to receive again what they believe is the Holy Spirit for a sign when the Holy Spirit is in us by faith in Jesus Christ; ths a falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 )

So apply this warning to that...

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

They believe they can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign and thus they suffer a thief to break through which is why they were not watching in according to our faith in Jesus Christ or they would not have been in that mentality to receive another spirit that is not the Holy Spirit, but a thief.

And their houses are falling down because of this broadening of the way in how they approach God the Father in worship which is going around the Son by going to the Holy Spirit as if He can answer prayers when He cannot as they do call on the Holy Spirit to come & fall on them to receive after a sign.

Even the sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation, thinking it is a prayer language of the Holy Spirit's.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door:...

John 14: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Any work of iniquity that denies Him, He will deny us. Those wayward & unrepentant saints left behind at the pre tribulational rapture are still His, as verse 13 testify that He still abides in them, but the point here is that this iniquity of approaching God by way of the Holy Spirit is causing many houses as in many believers to fall down in these movements of the "Spirit".

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Many believers are falling away from the faith because they heed not the commandment of His invitation on how we are to approach God the Father ONLY by way of the Son in worship, fellowship, and prayer.

Snce the falling away from the faith is happening now which is that tribulation that precedes the great tribulation, it's time to go before that throne of grace for help in trusting Him as our Good Shepherd in discerning all iniquities in getting rid of them so as to be ready & foudn abiding in Him before the Bridegroom comes.

Those that have gone astray that finally see the truth, can still repent with His help by shunning vain & profane babblings and pray normally, ask Jesus for forgiveness, and chase no more after the spirits to receive after a sign.

 

[Hark]

The West has always been dry and a lot of the water shortage in California is attributable to the environmentalists and is an artificial water shortage.

Still, the forest fires has been more than ever in our recorded history and with all of these firefighters trying to put it out, I cannot imagine the Indians doing it way back then.

Nevertheless, sodomite marriage, the sole achievement of the Obama administration allied with the sodomite courts, has brought doom for the USA. You can write Ichabod on the USA.

Actually, that is only part of the problem for this nation as the churches have become defiled in their own ways too.

Revelations 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There is a preaching of receiving the Holy Spirit again with the evidence of tongues which comes with no interpretation and God has been permitting this strong delusion for believing that lie. Other signs are hyped for believing they can receive the Holy Spirit again in these movements of the "Spirit".

But Paul reminded them how we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth by the hearing of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

And so alot of believers as well as churches need to repent as the "holy laughter" movement went across the denomenations as it was no longer a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event as it was happening in Catholic and Protestant churches as reported by the 700 Club in 1994.

2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness....24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

Can any christian believe that the tongues without interpretation that they had received the same way that others receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign by falling down is of God?

So.. sodomites marriages is not the only thing corrupting this nation as God is calling believers to come out of the spiritual harlotry happening in the churches. Apparently, because the media for this apostasy is based mainly in USA, it is how other nations are drinking the wine of her fornication.

 

[PreachTony]

No. Only part of Jesus's answers to His disciples' 3 questions in Matthew 24th chapter had passed. The part of when the Temple be thrown down had passed.

And the part about that son of perdition in the holy of holies of the Temple had not occurred yet; close, but not yet because he did not claim to be God. So the third Temple has yet to be built for this to occur.

Odds are that after the pre tribulational rapture, and the western hemisphere is burning up, Israel's enemies will make a peace treaty by allowing them to build the Temple.

And Israel has all the stuff ready to do it, the insides as well as the outside. They have the original outline of the former Temple and in spite of the Dome of the Rock, they can still build it fulfilling the prophesy as to how the outer court will belong to the Gentiles still.

Do you believe this "third temple" will be built in the same place as the previous temple, on the Temple Mount? If so, what makes you think Islam will ever surrender the Dome of the Rock for certain demolition in order to build this third temple?

Also, what about for those of us who are not pre-tribbers? You're stating your point of view as though it is fact, which I don't blame you. I'd do the same if offering my beliefs. But a certain level of respect and tolerance should be enacted when dealing with terms of eschatology. I'm not a pre-tribber, nor am I a pre-mil.

You say the Temple must be rebuilt so that the Antichrist (son of perdition) can go into it. John told his readers that, while they were looking for Antichrist, there were already many antichrists in the world.

Revelations 18th chapter; hence prophesy.

The tower at Babylon was about "let us make a name for ourselves" and USA is "We, the people.." daughter of Babylon; the one that merchants of the sea trade with that would stand afar off because of the plagues within her.

Sorry, Hark, but this is just random lines from a very spiritual apocalyptic book. Any number of readers could come up with any number of potential meaning for these things. To say they mean the US because we use the phrase "We, the people..." is grasping at best.

Jesus said to watch for the signs. He also said that many believers will be caught unprepared too because they were not watching.

Luke 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Revelations 3:3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Revelations 16:15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Jesus is referring to different generations in answering those three questions from the disciples.

There will be a generation that will see the Temple He had spoken of that will be thrown down; there will be a generation that will see the falling away from the faith which will happen first; ( Matthew 24:23-42 ) and the generation that will see the abomination of desolation ( do note reference to Daniel the prophet in Matthew 24:15 for that third Temple during the great tribulation of ( Matthew 24:14-22 ).

Daniel only references a third temple if you believe that there is some magical, indeterminate amount of time between the 69th and 70th week. In which case why bother telling Daniel that a set amount of time was determined on the people of the time is, in fact, indeterminate?

 

[church mouse guy]

Still, the forest fires has been more than ever in our recorded history and with all of these firefighters trying to put it out, I cannot imagine the Indians doing it way back then.

Actually, that is only part of the problem for this nation as the churches have become defiled in their own ways too....

Certainly the Indians, immigrants from Siberia and Mongolia, were savages and would not have fought forest fires.

However, you can say that our government does not manage forests well because of the tree-huggers who would prefer a burnt forest to a managed one.

As for American Christianity, the natural state of the church seems to be to be asleep but the mainline denominations are beyond dispute apostate.