God loves us and wants us to be saved

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Is the love of God shown to us though in the destiny of those who have rejected jesus asa their Lord, so God is really letting them have their 'will?"

Well perhaps I shouldn't discuss my own salvation experience but I would lay money its similar to many who believe in Doctrines of Grace. I was definitely NOT seeking God, in fact, years earlier I had set aside my war with God because I was fully convinced there was no God with which to war. Yet, when He decided the time was right, He came to me, revealed Himself, then it was child's play for Him to arrange circumstances to where I was confronted with His revelation. The only choice after that is to willfully bind my spirit with His, which I gladly did. But it was not a "choice" I made. It was the ONLY possible avenue to take, which is the case in all true salvation episodes.

 

[convicted1]

Well perhaps I shouldn't discuss my own salvation experience but I would lay money its similar to many who believe in Doctrines of Grace. I was definitely NOT seeking God, in fact, years earlier I had set aside my war with God because I was fully convinced there was no God with which to war. Yet, when He decided the time was right, He came to me, revealed Himself, then it was child's play for Him to arrange circumstances to where I was confronted with His revelation. The only choice after that is to willfully bind my spirit with His, which I gladly did. But it was not a "choice" I made. It was the ONLY possible avenue to take, which is the case in all true salvation episodes.

 

[Iconoclast]

PreachTony

To quote Romans, you have to acknowledge this verse, as well:

It states clearly that by one man sin, and thereby death, entered the world. So also, by one man, the free gift came to all.

[/QUOTE]

PT......what do you think this verse is saying?

what is the free gift?

what does it mean that it came to all men?

Notice....it does not say it potentially comes to all men.... what ever the gift is, it ACTUALLY COMES to those it is supposed to.


Ps... It might help to quote the whole verse;

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In light of the whole v erse being quoted.....explain what it means now....

 

[BrotherJoseph]

It may sound logical to you, but it sure isn't biblical. The Holy God of the Bible will not allow sin to be ignored. He graciously forgives all of the sin of some --and does not pardon the sin of others. He has the perfect right to do so.

Brother Rippon, what you stated above is correct. David in the book of Psalms makes it clear God does not love all people, but rather hates some people "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity' (Psalm 5:5) and "5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth" (Psalm 11:5) Notice the last verse I gave makes a clear distinguishment in the Lord's attitude toward the "righteous" as opposed to the "wicked".

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother Rippon, what you stated above is correct. David in the book of Psalms makes it clear God does not love all people, but rather hates some people "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity' (Psalm 5:5) and "5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth" (Psalm 11:5) Notice the last verse I gave makes a clear distinguishment in the Lord's attitude toward the "righteous" as opposed to the "wicked".

Yes, all true but you fellows don't seem to realize the thinking process of those more inclined toward Arminism (maybe its best to call it Synergistic Thinking.

The viewpoint is that Calvinism creates a monster God....one without love for all. That any of you should argue that god does not love all is ludicrous, (to them).

 

[revmwc]

So what? In your synerio God is an inept figure just hoping the sinner comes to his or her sences and gives themselves to Him....if not, its down to hell they go. Let me ask you, do you allow a child to cross a busy intersection without supervision ....id say no because I know the child isn't equipped to make such a risky decision...ie I wouldn't gamble on the kids life. You are right, that is love....that is a responsible adult looking after one of lesser intellect.

But here is what I want you to splain to me Tony is how a loving God allows anyone to go to hell....see the logical thing to do is give everyone a pass and make sure we all get saved.....so why doesn't that happen? Can you answer that....cause I sure cant.

It happens because God gave mankind volition. We prove that every single day. You chose to drink coffee or no to drink coffee. You choose to honk at the idiot who cut you off or just continuing to drive peacefully. You chose to sin if you are a believer or not to sin. Just like as a child gets older you allow them more responsibility and you allow them to make mistakes, that is how they are to learn. yet many make the wrong decision you punish them, some learn some refuse to take correction and they use their volition a volition god placed in Adam and Eve from the very beginning. God gave one command to Adam don't eat of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What happened God could have made sure Adam and Eve didn't eat from it but He didn't He allowed them to use volition and mankind has been under the curse ever since that time.

 

[Yeshua1]

It happens because God gave mankind volition. We prove that every single day. You chose to drink coffee or no to drink coffee. You choose to honk at the idiot who cut you off or just continuing to drive peacefully. You chose to sin if you are a believer or not to sin. Just like as a child gets older you allow them more responsibility and you allow them to make mistakes, that is how they are to learn. yet many make the wrong decision you punish them, some learn some refuse to take correction and they use their volition a volition god placed in Adam and Eve from the very beginning. God gave one command to Adam don't eat of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What happened God could have made sure Adam and Eve didn't eat from it but He didn't He allowed them to use volition and mankind has been under the curse ever since that time.

Did the fall of Adam cause us to lose any free will to choose, or do we still have that in same way he did before his fall?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It happens because God gave mankind volition. We prove that every single day. You chose to drink coffee or no to drink coffee. You choose to honk at the idiot who cut you off or just continuing to drive peacefully. You chose to sin if you are a believer or not to sin. Just like as a child gets older you allow them more responsibility and you allow them to make mistakes, that is how they are to learn. yet many make the wrong decision you punish them, some learn some refuse to take correction and they use their volition a volition god placed in Adam and Eve from the very beginning. God gave one command to Adam don't eat of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What happened God could have made sure Adam and Eve didn't eat from it but He didn't He allowed them to use volition and mankind has been under the curse ever since that time.

What's volition....could you show that to me in the Bible?

 

[tyndale1946]

Well perhaps I shouldn't discuss my own salvation experience but I would lay money its similar to many who believe in Doctrines of Grace. I was definitely NOT seeking God, in fact, years earlier I had set aside my war with God because I was fully convinced there was no God with which to war. Yet, when He decided the time was right, He came to me, revealed Himself, then it was child's play for Him to arrange circumstances to where I was confronted with His revelation. The only choice after that is to willfully bind my spirit with His, which I gladly did. But it was not a "choice" I made. It was the ONLY possible avenue to take, which is the case in all true salvation episodes.

This criminal wasn't seeking God either but something happened to change that in six hours. That is why the PB Brethren and I believe that no one is lost eternally unless God says they are. We never make that judgement because someone can be saved in the 11th hour as this scriptures states. There is no human ability here God did ALL the work! He saves from the cradle to the grave!

Luke23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

My question is if both had the opportunity why did only one come to Christ?
Surely from a human standpoint wasn't God unfair because the other one wasn't saved. ? They were both equally guilty?... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You mean that sinners are not lost unless HE ignores you, dont you?

 

[revmwc]

Did the fall of Adam cause us to lose any free will to choose, or do we still have that in same way he did before his fall?

We still have volition just as Adam had, what we have now that Adam didn't in a nature to sin that the Old sin Nature. It was passed from Adam to his children and right down the line from father to children, the old sin nature dominates every human until salvation. The believer becomes spiriutallly but still has that old nature that wars with the Spirit to gain control. Ephesians 5:18 "Be ye not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be ye filled with the Spirit." that is don't allow sin the Old Sin Nature to control you let the Holy Spirit be in control. That is what the pastor I grew up under called the
C-Christian
W-Way
O- of
L-Life
We should all live under the control that is the influence of the Holy Spirit which is being filled with the Spirit.

 

[tyndale1946]

You mean that sinners are not lost unless HE ignores you, dont you?

Would you elaborate more fully on that thought, maybe by an illustration as I don't think I fully understand what you are saying?... Brother Glen

 

[savedbymercy]

Christ Loved His Church and shall save it, in fact has saved it ! Eph 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Would you elaborate more fully on that thought, maybe by an illustration as I don't think I fully understand what you are saying?... Brother Glen

Glen....let me ask you"when were you 1st saved?

 

[salzer mtn]

I have heard some people say, “God loves us and wants us to be saved.” I agree with that statement. He wanted us to be saved so badly that He fixed it where we had no choice in the matter and that we couldn’t lose that
salvation even if we wanted to. He determines to save, then buddy, you are saved and once saved…always saved. How could it be otherwise? Why would anyone want it to be otherwise?

As far as choice is concerned, I will have to go with the Psalmist David when he said, Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power. When God hedged me in and broke my stubborn will and slayed me by his law and showed me Christ as a savior of sinners, I willingly made haste to him.

 

[tyndale1946]

Glen....let me ask you"when were you 1st saved?

Let me give you a little of my history. I grew up in a Primitive Baptist Church and from my recollection I was six when my parents joined. My grandfather on my dad side was PB and dad grew up PB also in Texas. Lot of PBs in Texas and all his brothers were PB. I was immersed in the doctrine of Sovereign Grace from the age of six. I had a definite belief in God but not Christ. My God was the God of the O/T! I heard preacher after preacher expound on the full truths of the Gospel. Never was exposed to any other doctrine.

In 1965 the Vietnam War broke out and I was sent overseas with the United States Marine Corp. I was with the Tank Division. During that time I wrote a letter to a paper called The Banner Of Love a church paper that was circulated among our people. I was telling them how much I missed the church, the doctrine, the fellowship, the singing, praying, and preaching and never forgot the communion. The drinking of the wine, the unleavened bread and washing the brethrens feet. Which I have observed but never participated in and how solemn, heartfelt and moving that time was. I still remember it to this day. As often as you do this, Do this in remembrance of Me!

In February of 66 we called into action for a battle called Operation Beaver. Twenty-One 90mm Abram Gun Tanks went to the battle and out of that group nineteen out of twenty-one tanks got stuck in four feet of mud. Our was among the nineteen. We were sitting ducks. We couldn't do anything as night was setting in and we held a watchful vigil. Everything was quiet... Too Quiet. I was sleeping on the back of our tank when ALL HELL BROKE LOSE!... A mortar round exploded about twenty feet above my head. Our tank commander jumped out of the hatch and ran to me expecting to see a dead marine. I wasn't touched. In fact I returned from Vietnam without a scratch. An interesting side note, the day after the battle it took Skycorsky helicopters with half mile cables to pull us out.

I guess God saving me was my wake-up call and not soon after my return in 1968 I joined the church I grew up in. I was brought to Christ in 1968 when I joined the church and been trying to follow him ever since. The church I'm afraid to say has been disbanded as the angel of death visited it to many times. Its been eleven years now and I miss all the precious saints who are gone on and the doctrine they stood for and defended. To some on here this is a nice story but to my PB Brethren they understand as I'm sure relating to the church they have had similar experiences. If you are asking when I joined the church and was baptized it was 1968!... When was I saved?... I don't know?... I have evidence I am!... Brother Glen (Sinner Saved)

 

[convicted1]

As far as choice is concerned, I will have to go with the Psalmist David when he said, Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power. When God hedged me in and broke my stubborn will and slayed me by his law and showed me Christ as a savior of sinners, I willingly made haste to him.

 

[Yeshua1]

We still have volition just as Adam had, what we have now that Adam didn't in a nature to sin that the Old sin Nature. It was passed from Adam to his children and right down the line from father to children, the old sin nature dominates every human until salvation. The believer becomes spiriutallly but still has that old nature that wars with the Spirit to gain control. Ephesians 5:18 "Be ye not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be ye filled with the Spirit." that is don't allow sin the Old Sin Nature to control you let the Holy Spirit be in control. That is what the pastor I grew up under called the
C-Christian
W-Way
O- of
L-Life
We should all live under the control that is the influence of the Holy Spirit which is being filled with the Spirit.

So you see us as being the same way in regards to making spiritual decisions as Adam was before the fall?

 

[revmwc]

So you see us as being the same way in regards to making spiritual decisions as Adam was before the fall?

Everyday we get up and make a decision. Live for Christ or give in to temptation and sin. We see it throughout the Bible, believers making one decision or the other.
Just like Adam had to decide, eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that Eve had eaten and be with her or refuse to eat and see her thrown out of the garden and he would remain. Adam chose to be with Eve and eat of the fruit.