God spoke to me and the voice of the Lord said.......

[BillyMac]

Each of us in our Christian walk have heard this said by our Christian leaders and peers on many occassions. We know too that to claim to hear from God is a serious affirmation that should never be spoken of lightly as to hear a false word or message that is not from another voice that we hear and attach it to God would be blasphemy and mislead the hearer of that word.

Whenever I hear this phrase proclaimed from the clergy or from laity I take note as we all should, but I also within my spirit question it's authenticity by asking the question: "Oh He did, did He?, so what DOES the voice of the Lord sound like???

Don't you wonder too if the 'voice' that you 'hear' is the same 'voice' that every other Christian hears and if maybe His voice is heard differently by different Christians???

In both the Old and the New Testaments, there are firm examples of where God spoke to His people. In the Old Testament I have believed that the voice of YHWH was a physical and audible manifestation of sound waves just like we hear in the natural. When God spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai from out of the burning bush, I accept that God's voice was the same as we would experience in the natural. And when angels have spoken to men, I also accept it quickly as an audible voise of authority. Likewise, when this is expressed in the New Testament I **want to** accept and believe that the voice of the Lord is an audible voice but somehow I find this hard to accept because it has never happened to me.

Jesus says in the following passage:

John 4: 1-5; 4:27:
1-I assure you, anyone who sneaks over the wall of a sheepfold, rather than going through the gate, must surely be a thief and a robber! 2-For a shepherd enters through the gate. 3-The gate keeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep hear his voice and come to him. He calls his sheep by name and leads them out. 4-After he has gathered his own flock, he walks ahead of them, and they follow him because they recognize his voice. 5-They won't follow a stranger; they will run from him because they won't recognize his voice. (NLT)

And again in verse 27:

27-My sheep know my voice, and I know them and they follow me. (KJV)

And so it is that I pose these questions to each of you: How does the voice of the Lord manifest itself to you??? What does the voice of God sound like??? And more importantly, how do you KNOW that that voice is NOT the voice of the robber or the thief???

You see, I think it is absolutely imperative that I 'hear' the right voice each time that that voice speaks to me. I know that I know that I AM a sheep, so HOW will I recognize the voice of my Master if I do not hear from Him in the natural??? Or, should I be hearing from Him in the natural audible hearing of my physical ears???

(Side note: I also regret that there is no other space on these boards to post such a topic as this and have non-Baptists post their responses to these questions that are vital to ALL Christians.)

 

[LadyEagle]

Try posting this in the Other Religions Forum. Different denominations post there. (You can ask one of the moderators of this forum or an administrator to move this thread.)

Don't be surprised if you get the usual scoffing and attacks by the usual suspects in this section of the board, instead of a genuine, mature discussion. (Based on experience when I've been here, tried that.)

 

[Gina B]

You see, I think it is absolutely imperative that I 'hear' the right voice each time that that voice speaks to me. I know that I know that I AM a sheep, so HOW will I recognize the voice of my Master if I do not hear from Him in the natural??? Or, should I be hearing from Him in the natural audible hearing of my physical ears???

Often when people say "God told me...." they are speaking of feeling convicted. Not an audible voice, but a sense of what is right and spiritual turmoil if that leading isn't followed.
There have been a very few people who have claimed to hear a voice that have been believable to me. I think that too often it's used as a tactic by people to accomplish things that need to be done. It's easier to say "God said you should teach this SS class" than to lead people and teach them to do things for the church as they should.
So if you want to use your ears to audibly hear God's voice, read the bible aloud.

The more you study and pray and live right the clearer the leading of the Holy Spirit can become.
Gina

 

[James_Newman]

Well, I guess in response to your question, I would say that the Holy Spirit speaks to us specifically through His word. If we continue to renew our spirit in the word, He writes His word in our heart and when the need for guidance arises, He may just bring the word that you need to hear to the forefront of your mind. But that does not rule out any other more subjective means of communicating with us... but when someone says that God told them something, if it doesn't agree with the word of God, then it is not God that told it to them.

The charismatic movement may have begun out of a genuine desire to have a closer personal walk with the Lord, and to experience the 'power' of the Holy Spirit, but it is being led far astray. What we see in those churches seems to be an emotion based theology, where we have women leading the churches (which Paul straightly forbids) and the word of God is given a back seat to any new revelation that might come out of one of their 'prophets'.

But I do believe that the Holy Spirit is active in the church today, and God is separating His bride out of the world and preparing to return very soon. We see the Holy Spirit poured out upon all flesh in the last days in Joel, and I think it would not be unbiblical to start seeing a few drops before the flood.

 

[Lori]

I agree with Gina in that in today's time it's more of a conviction than an audible voice. Now I do believe that if there is a person in a country (not US) that has never seen a missionary, or absolutely is isolated(sp?) where they do not have the same types of access we have and enjoy here, then yes in that sense God Almighty may actually speak or have this person see an angel, etc.

I think if you feel under conviction of something (God speaking to your heart) one of the best ways to know if it is genuine is to test it. Like the Lord says "Test the spirits". Read in the Bible regarding what you are feeling convicted about and see what it says. Another way to test is to ask yourself: Does this action, thought, conviction, etc. glorify, or will it glorify the Lord. If the answer is yes to this then rest assured that it is most likely from the Lord.

Know too that feelings can be manipulated in order to get someone to do something.

I hope this was of some help.

azwyld
<*}}}><

 

[Johnv]

God will never tell us something that is contrary to scripture. If someone says "God told me" something that is not scripturally supportable, then you can bet it's either an error or a deception.

 

[BillyMac]

There are "other" voices besides that of the Lord. For instance, in psychology there is a term that is called "self-talk" that refers to things that we tell ourselves. This 'voice' is an internal cognitive voice that reassures us of our own affirmations. Example: to the self-esteem deprived individual that person might say: "I am a worthy and good person". This translated into a spiritual voice may be something like: "If God is for me, who can be against me?". We know the latter to be scriptural thus it must also be spiritual. Yet the former may be positive but is not necessarily of God. And then, too, both resemble each other and convey the same self assurance. So how can one distinguish between the two and call it spiritual inner speaking (hearing) as opposed to myself telling myself positive things??? Are they one and the same, or separate and distinct??? Or, perhaps better expressed, as a Christian are all of my thoughts of God, therefore worthy of listening to??? Or are some of Satan and thus, undependable to work good in me. Yet, as a sanctified Christian, can a devilish evil ever be in my thoughts to steer me away from the voice of God???

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by BillyMac:
There are "other" voices besides that of the Lord. For instance, in psychology there is a term that is called "self-talk" that refers to things that we tell ourselves. This 'voice' is an internal cognitive voice that reassures us of our own affirmations. Example: to the self-esteem deprived individual that person might say: "I am a worthy and good person". This translated into a spiritual voice may be something like: "If God is for me, who can be against me?". We know the latter to be scriptural thus it must also be spiritual. Yet the former may be positive but is not necessarily of God. And then, too, both resemble each other and convey the same self assurance. So how can one distinguish between the two and call it spiritual inner speaking (hearing) as opposed to myself telling myself positive things??? Are they one and the same, or separate and distinct??? Or, perhaps better expressed, as a Christian are all of my thoughts of God, therefore worthy of listening to??? Or are some of Satan and thus, undependable to work good in me. Yet, as a sanctified Christian, can a devilish evil ever be in my thoughts to steer me away from the voice of God???

Theres the problem right there, the bible would refute the notion that you are a worthy and good person. Psychologists that say we need to teach our children to have self esteem obviously do not believe the bible. God says we are worthy... to be cast into the lake of fire. He sent His son to die for us so we wouldn't have to die for all eternity. That doesn't make us worthy. It makes Him worthy of our praise.

 

[James_Newman]

And yes, the devil can influence your thoughts. He does it every day when you turn on your television, or listen to worldly secular music. The devil is the ruler of this world right now.

 

[BillyMac]

Originally posted by James Newman:
And yes, the devil can influence your thoughts. He does it every day when you turn on your television, or listen to worldly secular music. The devil is the ruler of this world right now.

Oh really??? Every time??? How is Rachmaninoff's Concerto No. 2, "of the devil"??? I do understand that this music IS worldly and secular, but of the devil just because it isn't spiritual in the Godly sense???

 

[James_Newman]

Rachmaninoff is not exactly what I had in mind. But classical music can certainly have an influence on us as well. Classical composers have long understood that, and they used their music to create a desired mood in their audience.

Are you arguing that a Christian will not be influenced by what is fed to him through his eyes and ears? The people who say that we are worthy would probably agree with you, but you would have to show that from the bible to get an amen from me.

Psalm 101:3
I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by James Newman:
And yes, the devil can influence your thoughts. He does it every day when you turn on your television, or listen to worldly secular music. The devil is the ruler of this world right now.

I'm curently watching a TV program on the history of the JS Bach. Please tell me how Satan is influencing me. Needless to say, I think your view is pharasaical, and such views should be avoided as a matter of scriptural guideline.

 

[James_Newman]

Well, you can think whatever you like. I'm not telling you to do anything but follow the light that has been given to you. If by the very act of turning on the television, satan hasn't already gotten you out of the bible, I'd be willing to see your point of view. But you cant just point a finger at someone and call them a pharisee. Show me from the word that it is ok to watch TV. Maybe you are giving the other voices too much credibility, brother.

If you want to learn about Bach, praise God brother. Most people today would rather blast some Eminem out of their car and smoke marijuana. But you could just as easily read a book about his life. TV has invaded our homes and satan uses it to influence our children. Do you have any children? Test your theory. Let them watch unsupervised television as much as they want for a week, and see if their behavior changes.

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by James Newman:
Well, you can think whatever you like. I'm not telling you to do anything but follow the light that has been given to you. If by the very act of turning on the television, satan hasn't already gotten you out of the bible, I'd be willing to see your point of view. But you cant just point a finger at someone and call them a pharisee. Show me from the word that it is ok to watch TV. Maybe you are giving the other voices too much credibility, brother.

If you want to learn about Bach, praise God brother. Most people today would rather blast some Eminem out of their car and smoke marijuana. But you could just as easily read a book about his life. TV has invaded our homes and satan uses it to influence our children. Do you have any children? Test your theory. Let them watch unsupervised television as much as they want for a week, and see if their behavior changes.

Their behavior would also change for the worse if I let them into the kitchen unsupervised. Ever seen a kid hyped up on Snickers?

Originally quoted by Billy So how can one distinguish between the two and call it spiritual inner speaking (hearing) as opposed to myself telling myself positive things??? Are they one and the same, or separate and distinct??? Or, perhaps better expressed, as a Christian are all of my thoughts of God, therefore worthy of listening to??? Or are some of Satan and thus, undependable to work good in me. Yet, as a sanctified Christian, can a devilish evil ever be in my thoughts to steer me away from the voice of God???

Easy. If you're telling yourself positive things you know it was you.

All kinds of thoughts run through people's minds. With time Christians have an easier time feeling/understanding true conviction.
Can Satan influence our thoughts? Yes, with the help of his angels. They may not be able to have access to your complete mind as God does, but being around for a couple thousand years, they'd probably have a pretty good idea of human nature and what can make you stumble.
How do you know the difference? That's hard. At it's most basic one could say that if it's good it's of God, if it's not it's from Satan, but Satan isn't dumb and can use good for evil or make evil look good. That's why we always need to be on our guard and bathe our lives in prayer. It will help us be able to discern the right things to do.
The thing is, there's no 100% positive answer to your question. Everyone's relationship with God is different, and we all experience His influence in a variety of ways. Of course we all have the Bible and are spoken to in the same way in that regard, but as far as influences and thoughts and your mind apart from that, we're all different.

Gina

 

[Sakrysta]

Unless what I'm "hearing" is Scripture quoted back at me, or at least the application of Scripture, I think the "voice" I hear in my head is me.

Questions the Lord seems to bring before my mind quite often:

"Is this really glorifying to God?"
"WHY does that bother you so much? You're focusing on your own inconveniences again instead of serving others."

And the most frequent one, not a question:
"Trust me."

*sigh*

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by James Newman:
I'm not telling you to do anything but follow the light that has been given to you. If by the very act of turning on the television, satan hasn't already gotten you out of the bible, I'd be willing to see your point of view.

I'm not satanically influenced by music, tv, etc. I'm very good as spiritual discernment. If I come across something that's inappropriate, I refrain.

But you cant just point a finger at someone and call them a pharisee.

Yes I can. Do you know why? Because you made a blanket statement about television and music that has no scriptural or scripturally discernable basis. The nature of that blanket statement was indeed pharasaical, imo.

Show me from the word that it is ok to watch TV. Maybe you are giving the other voices too much credibility, brother.

Where does scripture say it's okay to watch tv? The same place it says that it's okay to wipe yourself after using the restroom. It's the book of common sense. As for "voices", I hear no voices at all. None. Sorry to disappoint your sarcasm.

If you want to learn about Bach, praise God brother. Most people today would rather blast some Eminem out of their car and smoke marijuana.

First, what "most people" do does not give one carte blanche to condemn the whole. Second, the fact that, in that one phrase, you imply that the typical person who listens to Eminem smokes marijuana is one of many indications of how you like to broadbrush condemnation and judgement in an unrighteous manner. Which, btw, is a pharasaical trait.

But you could just as easily read a book about his life. TV has invaded our homes and satan uses it to influence our children. Do you have any children? Test your theory. Let them watch unsupervised television as much as they want for a week, and see if their behavior changes.

I have children. I monitor what they watch, and more importantly, I teach them discernment. My oldest girls are so keen on discernment that I don't even need to monitor their tv viewing anymore. They automatically turn something off if it's inappropriate. They've been around TV most of their lives.

As for reading a book over watching a program, sure I can do that, but books are just as much a tool of satan as tv or music (what if the book on bach is published by Zondervan?). I suppose you'll also tell me that I can't use the internet to search for information on Bach because the internet is a tool of satan also.

In any event, your arguement is "there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, but you could do it better like this" is an insufficient enough arguement to make a case for condemnation. WHy use a car when you can ride a bike? Why ride a bike when you can walk? Why build a bathroom with an outhouse will do? Why use toilet paper when you can use a corn cob? Where does the slippery slope logic stop?

BTW, since music is a tool of Satan, but I'm alloswed to red books according to you, am I forbidden from listening to Bach's music, or am I only allowed to read a book about his music?

 

[James_Newman]

Aye carumba. You can justify anything you want brother. I'm not condemning anything. Christ condemned the world. He told us to be separate. You want to drink from their trough, go ahead.

 

[Lori]

Ya know, I suppose tv can have probably some very good and educational shows on it from time to time. Perhaps also some good christian shows on it, but meesa thinks (lol snicker snicker) that I am a tv addict and would have problems going without it. It's just always been there while I was growing up.

If I sit down long enough and think about that above statement it is kinda sad, because there are more important things to do in the world besides watch tv. Hmm...maybe I should go to tvholics anonymous. Wow, I think my vaca coming up will possibly be the longest time I've been without one, and here I am putting in to get my dad to get a portable dvd player with me for the long drive.

Oh about the voices thing too, my friends heard that some scientists now think that schitzofrenia is a made up thing and that everyone hears voices...supposedly they are classifying the 'inner' voice same as the audible one. It's the imaginary audible one "outer" one that schitzofreinics(sp?) hear all the time and can't get to quiet down.

Well just some random thoughts from
azwyld
<*}}}><

 

[Johnv]

It's funny that you say "tv and music are satan's tool", then you say "I'm not condemning anything".

Then you suggest I "read a book" instead of watch TV. You justify your response by saying Christ condemned the world, and tell me I'm drinking from their trough. I guess books are not part of the world Christ condemned. To add insult to injury, you use scripture to rationalize your pharasaical judgement, and then accuse me of rationalizing.

James, how difficult is it for you to say "you're right" or "I see your point", or "I understand what you're saying" once in a while? It's quite liberating and freeing. You might want to try it sometime.

Frankly, your last post makes you look like a crybaby. I don't think you want to look like that, do you?

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Johnv:
It's funny that you say "tv and music are satan's tool", then you say "I'm not condemning anything".

Then you suggest I "read a book" instead of watch TV. You justify your response by saying Christ condemned the world, and tell me I'm drinking from their trough. I guess books are not part of the world Christ condemned. To add insult to injury, you use scripture to rationalize your pharasaical judgement, and then accuse me of rationalizing.

James, how difficult is it for you to say "you're right" or "I see your point", or "I understand what you're saying" once in a while? It's quite liberating and freeing. You might want to try it sometime.

Frankly, your last post makes you look like a crybaby. I don't think you want to look like that, do you?

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Frankly JohnV, I think you have probably seen enough of my posts to know what I believe. If you think I am a pharisee because I try to exhort someone to holiness, then maybe you see something in the bible that I missed brother. I believe we are going to stand before the Lord and be judged for every idle word that came out of our mouths. You will give account for that comment, I will give account for my response and God will be the judge of all. I don't know why you take a comment about TV being a tool of Satan so personally, unless it is glued to your face 24 hours a day like most of the other people in this world.

Books it seems were good enough for Paul.
2 Timothy 4:13
When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, and my scrolls, especially the parchments.

I never saw the verse where he asked Peter to video-tape the SuperBowl, but my bible is a bit out of date. I realize you may have discernment and know what to watch and what not to watch. Do you have ESP as well? When your flipping channels, do you know when to close your eyes? I'll quote it for you again if it will cause you to see TV for what it is.

Psalm 101:3
I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

Has your TV cleaved to you, JohnV? You best cut it off.

Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

What did that pharisee just say? Oh, Sorry Jesus, I didn't hear you come in...