Really? I've never read Calvin or any Calvinist say that. Please give the quote.
My understanding has always been that man deludes himself into thinking he is elect. He ignores the marks of salvation by which a man can know he is elect or not.
I am aware it seems unaccountable to some how faith is attributed to the reprobate, seeing that it is declared by Paul to be one of the fruits of election; and yet the difficulty is easily solved: for though none are enlightened into faith...experience shows that the reprobates are sometimes affected in a way similar to the elect, that even in their judgement there is no difference between them....Not that they truly perceive the power of of spiritual grace and the sure light of faith; but the Lord,
the better to convict them and leave them without excuse, instill into their minds such a sense of goodness as can be felt without the Spirit of adoption.
Meanwhile, believers are taught to examine themselves carefully and humbly, lest carnal security creep in and take the place of assurance of faith. We may add, that the reprobate never have any other than a confused sense of grace, laying hold of the shadow rather than the substance, because the Spirit properly seals the forgiveness of sins in the elect only, applying it by special faith to their use. Still, it is correctly said that the reprobate believe God to be propitious to them, inasmuch as they accept the gift of reconciliation, though confusedly and without due discernment...Nor do I even deny that God illumines their minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but...the reprobate never obtain to the full extent or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy. [?!] In the elect alone he implants the living root of faith, so that they persevere even to the end. Thus we dispose of the objection, that if God truly displays his grace, it must endure for ever. There is nothing inconsistent in this with the fact of his enlightening some with a present sense of grace, which afterwards proves evanescent.
I therefore deny that they either understand his will considered as immutable, or steadily embrace his truth, inasmuch as they rest satisfied with an evanescent impression; just as a tree not planted deep enough may take root, but will in process of time wither away, though it may for several years not only put forth leaves and flowers, but produce fruit. In short, as by the revolt of the first man, the image of God could be effaced from his mind and soul, so there is nothing strange in His shedding some rays of grace on the reprobate, and afterwards allowing these to be extinguished. There is nothing to prevent him from giving some a slight knowledge of his Gospel and imbuing others thoroughly. Meanwhile, we must remember that however feeble and slender the faith of the elect may be, yet as the Spirit of God is to them a sure earnest and seal of their adoption, the impression once engraven can never be effaced from their hearts, whereas the light which glimmers in the reprobate is afterwards quenched. Nor can it be said that the Spirit therefore deceives, because he does not quicken the seed which lies in their hearts so as to make it ever remain incorruptible as in the elect. I go farther: seeing it is evident, from the doctrine of Scripture and from daily experience, that the reprobate are occasionally impressed with a sense of divine grace, some desire of mutual love must necessarily be excited in their hearts. But as the reprobate have no rooted conviction of the paternal love of God, so they do not in return yield the love of sons, but are led by a kind of mercenary affection. The Spirit of love was given to Christ alone, for the express purpose of conferring this Spirit upon his members; and there can be no doubt that the following words of Paul apply to the elect only: "The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us," (Rom. 5: 5
namely, the love which begets that confidence in prayer to which I have above adverted. It hence appears that the faith of some,
though not true faith, is NOT mere pretence. They are borne along by some sudden impulse of zeal, and erroneously impose upon themselves, sloth undoubtedly preventing them from examining their hearts with due care. Such probably was the case of those whom John describes as believing on Christ; but of whom he says, "Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man," (John 2: 24, 25.) Were it not true that many fall away from the common faith, (I call it common, because there is a great resemblance between temporary and living, everduring faith,) Christ would not have said to his disciples, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free," (John 8: 31, 32.) He is addressing those who had embraced his doctrine, and urging them to progress in the faith, lest by their sluggishness they extinguish the light which they have received. Accordingly, Paul claims faith as the peculiar privilege of the elect, intimating that many, from not being properly rooted, fall away, (Tit. 1: 1.) In the same way, in Matthew, our Savior says, "Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up," (Matth. 16: 13.) (Calvin, Institutes of the Christian ReligionIII:ii, 11-12, Translation by Henry Beveridge)
And you go along with this when you answer Skandelon's question: "Could you show me in scripture where and why the Spirit would "greatly move" in people's lives without having the purpose to save them?... I mean why would the Spirit "greatly move" in the life of the reprobates?" with Romans 9, and then added "The Spirit's enlightenment to the truth can produce such temporary change, when it is not accompanied with the gift of a new heart. Total Depravity relates to man's ability to know the truth and to really repent and believe. It does not preclude God giving him some knowledge of the truth".
Just as Calvin above said, it is to all the more give them "no excuse". To all the more condemn. Sill, then, all that stuff about "only the elect can move towards God" goes out the window. Granted, this interpretation still has the non-elect moving only because God grants them "some" grace, but now rather than God really holding His hands out to people, this doctrine s all the more revealed to be of a game of programming, with salvation and damnation equal goals. That is not good news; ESPECIALLY given that who can know whether they have really been regenerated, or just fooled into thinking so, under this scenario?
They have the tests by which to ensure the reality of their faith, and the Spirit's witness, so lack of assurance is down to us. We can know for sure.
But even those [perceived!] evidences could be apart of this delusion. It's impossible to know for sure.
Not sure what you mean by this, Eric.
In other words, some Calvinists might shrink back from this as too hard, but then the same Rom.9 premise would hold to them too.
