GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS

[Jerry Shugart]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
It simply means that the 10 commandments are the moral code that defines sin

Bob,

Yes,nine of the commandments define sin.

But one of the commandments was "made for men":

"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath"(Mk.2:27).

In what way is the "sabbath" made for man?Because man functions better if he rests on one day of the week.If man rests one day out of the week then he is fulfilling the purpose of the law of the Sabbath.

However,only those who were under the law were obligated to keep the "seventh day".And the Gentiles were never placed under "the law".

But if you want to keep the "seventh day" then that is up to you.The "spirit" of the law however is the fact that man should rest one day of the week.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
If we do not know what sin is, how can we know we are a sinner?

The Lord made provisions for those "who have not the law":

"For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness"(Ro.2:14,15).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Downsville]

Originally posted by Frank:

There are no examples of any Christians in the age of the new testament who kept the sabbath day or the ten commandments

LUKE 4 [14] And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

JESUS kept the sabbath

ACTS 17 [2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Paul kept the sabbath(wasnt he a Christian Frank?)

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

GENTILES taught on the sabbath

Well Frank?

 

[Eric B]

Those examples say nothing about KEEPing the Sabbath. Just meeting on the Sabbath. In the same vein, to be fair, Acts 20:7, 1 Cor.16:2 and Rev.1:10 say nothing about keeping Sunday either. In the beginning, the Church basically met every day (Acts 2:47), so "WHEN the disciples came together to break bread..." (what they do every day, and on this particular day at that time), "Paul preached to them, ready to depart the next day...". 1 Cor.16 says to begin setting aside collection money on Sunday, and mentions his coming. We read into this our present "pass around the collection plate in the Sunday service", but it seems this is so it could be collected, not because they were having a Church service then. Rev.1:10 says nothing at all about a day of the week, and the only other thing it could be (in the context of the whole book) was "the Day of the Lord" discussed elsewhere in the book (he was carried "in the spirit" in the series of visions). Both sides are using the same types of weak inferential arguments. But in the keeping of days, we were given liberty.

Another bit of info:
Pentecost may have been on a Sunday that year, but according the Pharisaic practice, not every year. The Sadducees recknoned that "the day after the Sabbath" referred to the weekly sabbath, snd therefore would always be a Sunday. The Pharisees said it was the annual sabbath (first day of unleavened bread), so would change every year. The Sadducees may have ruled the Temple then, but the Pharisaical segans made sure they did things the Pharisaic way, which Jesus said was right (the Sadducees had other aberrant doctrines as well). So if one holds both the Pharisaic interpretation, plus the Wednesday crucifixion, then it was Friday.

3 Angels said:

Those who are under GRACE, are not under the CURSE of the Law i.e. the PENALTY. We are still admonished, quite frequently through the NT to continue in the Commandments of God, and that His Law is HOLY.

You are attempting to say that because we are under Grace we are no longer required to OBEY.

But if God has no longer commanded something as mandatory, it is not now an issue of "obey"ing. Nobody is saying you can just "disobey" things God commands and do whatever you want. You do not keep all the "commandments" of the Law. Of course, you try to separate this "book of the Law" from the 10 commandments, but as Jerry showed, often when "law" is mentioned, it does refer to the 10 commandments; some of which would be listed. As I have said elsewhere, the 613 commandments were not "10 + 603" with only the first ten carrying over into the new covenant. The Ten were simply a summary of the 613 that "hung" on them. But the 10 themselves hang on the TWO: love for God, and love for neighbor. These cover all of our morality and spirituality, including the magnifications we see in Matt.5 that were not actually apart of the 10.

Could you cite chapter and verse where he mentions other laws?

v.10 "days and months and [appointed] times and years". No, these are not pagan days, as the only issue in this letter are those imposing Jewish practices ("desiring to be teachers of the Law"), such as circumcision, as you mentioned.

Out of context, that makes sense, but Paul is speaking here of the CURSE of the law, not the law itself.

It also said cursed is every man that hangs on a tree.

Yet we all know that forgiveness was granted to the theif that hung next to Jesus, and he too will be redeemed from the CURSE of the Law.

We are saved from the CURSE of the law, i.e. the penalty, not from the law itself.

The Law is necessary. We need it to see what is wrong with us, so that we see a need for a Savior.

True, but part of the curse of the Law, was that all of these ceremonial laws were added to the original universal laws because of sin (Gal.3:19), but did not save nor give the power to obey. God wrote the lesson that what man needed was not simply a stricter Law code. Once again, we do not simply add Jesus to the existing Law. It obviously changed from what was before.

 

[Downsville]

DEUT.6 [1] Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your Godcommanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:[2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son,and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

Fear the LORD = commandments

PSALM 111 [10] The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

fear of the LORD = do HIS commandments

PROVERBS 1 [7] The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.[8] My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:[9] For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

fear of the LORD = forsake not the law = grace

ACTS 9 [31] Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

fear of the LORD = Holy Ghost

PSALM 119 [72] The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.[73] Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.[74] They that fear thee will be glad when they see me; because I have hoped in thy word.

Gladly fear-WHEN THEY SEE ME I may learn thy commandments
Now Psalm 119 says “when they see me”. This is speaking when Christ shall return to earth and the dead in Christ will rise first. Those who understand = give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.
As you can see the 10 commandments were not nailed to the cross. But many have come in the name of Christ and would have you to believe that they were through the commandments and doctrines of men.

 

[Downsville]

Eric
you say this
But in the keeping of days, we were given liberty.

But you dont back it up. Where do you find this in scripture?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Downsville:

But in the keeping of days, we were given liberty.

But you dont back it up. Where do you find this in scripture?

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

[Downsville]

PROVERBS 24 [19] Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked;[20] For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.[21] My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:[22] For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?

So what has changed Eric?

 

[Downsville]

DHK
Do you really believe that scripture says man now has the right to change the sabbath day, a commandment written by the finger of God.
Ahhh vanity...

 

[Downsville]

Well DHK
Went and read chapter 14 of Romans and theres a lot of talk about eatin and drinkin on days. Not quite sure what there talkin about. Could be the same thing talked about in scripture that says something about meat and drink in new moons, sabbaths and feast days.But i did find this there

[17] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

I do know what the scriptures say about righteousness

1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

DEUT. 6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments.....ALL

PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.[173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

for all thy commandments are righteousness

ISAIAH 48 [17] Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

LORD-REDEEMER-HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL(any question as to who that is)Do ya believe Isaiah 48?

1COR.15 [34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1JOHN3 [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1JOHN3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

LUKE 1 [6] And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

PSALM 7 [6] Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.[7] So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high.[8] The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.[9] Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

You have heard many people say that we will not be judged by our own righteousness. We only need believe in Jesus and his righteousness and nothing more. Psalm 7 speaks of the time when Christ shall return to this earth to judge
the people. Read it for yourself. Its very clear!

1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[Downsville]

Jerry
you wrote
However,only those who were under the law were obligated to keep the "seventh day".And the Gentiles were never placed under "the law".

So your sayin we are not grafted in their tree as scripture says in Romans 11, but we have our own tree?

 

[Downsville]

Me Again
you wrote
You are probably referring to "circumcision".But as I have already demonstrated,Paul was speaking about more than just "one law" in Galatians.Instead,he is speaking about "all things written in the book of the law".

You cant seem to separate the law and commandments

EXOD.24 [12] And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

AND a law AND commandments

Well....scripture does

 

[DHK]

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath is a shadow. A shadow is simply an image, an outline of that which is real. If you keep the Sabbath you are remembering that which is a shadow of what was to come. You don't have the real thing.
My Sabbath is Christ. He is the reality. He fulfilled the Law. The command was to rest on the Sabbath. My rest is in Christ.

Hebrews 4:9-10 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The rest spoken of here is Christ himself. Salvation is not of works but of faith. By faith we enter into his rest. Christ is our Sabbath. Salvation is only through faith in Him, without the works of the law. You can only have rest if:
1. you have ceased from your own works (i.e., keeping the Sabbath).
2. you have put your faith or entered into the Rest of God, (i.e. trusted Christ as Saviour)
DHK

 

[Eric B]

PROVERBS 24 [19] Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked;[20] For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.[21] My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:[22] For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?

So what has changed Eric?

Huh?
What does this have to do with it?

You cant seem to separate the law and commandments

EXOD.24 [12] And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

AND a law AND commandments

That is Hebrew parallelism. The same thing is often repeated with other words, and it can be connected by "and". Really, you see three things: "tables of stone", "law", "commandments", but these are not three separate sets of law. The 10 written on the tables of stone sum up the book of the law. They are not two separate laws.

 

[Downsville]

That is Hebrew parallelism

OOhhh...kinda like lawyer psycho babel?

HEHEHE.Ive heard em all.

 

[Downsville]

Hi DHK
you wrote
Hebrews 4:9-10 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
The rest spoken of here is Christ himself. Salvation is not of works but of faith. By faith we enter into his rest. Christ is our Sabbath

How come you wont simply believe what it says in Hebrews4?

HEBREWS 4
[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Those that believe do enter into rest. Dont come short of it. Have faith in the WORD!

[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

He spoke of the 7th day of rest. Just as GOD did at the time of creation. The 7th day! Not Jesus DHK.Jesus is not a day.

[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

There remains some, even after so long a time, that have not entered this rest because of unbelief

[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

If Jesus became their rest, would HE not have spoken of another day? I know some of the newer bibles have changed the name of Jesus to Joshua. Why? Is it to obvious if left the way it was written?

[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The sabbath rest remains therefore TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD! Ive heard many say the rest being spoken of is the 1000 yr period of rest. Well, thats not here yet. So how could that remain?

[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Enter into this rest (just as GOD did) .God ceased from work on the 7th day and we as believers are also not to work as the 4th commandment says. Look at verse 4. The 7th day. The day God sanctified. The sabbath day.


Ive seen pages and pages written about above scriptures trying to explain that it doesnt really mean what it says.
Just believe what it says DHK and enter into the rest GOD created for us. The rest that sanctifys us and sets believers apart from those with the spirit of unbelief.

 

[Downsville]

DHK
You also said The rest spoken of here is Christ himself.

Well, according to scripture your jumping the gun just a bit.

2 THES.1 [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

When will the rest with Jesus begin? According to scripture its when HE returns DHK. you have stated that you need not keep Gods sabbath because you rest in Jesus. Im not even sure i understand what that really means.If i met you would i know you were resting in Jesus DHK. Is it just more PsyBab invented so you(not personally)can say you believe and still no actions necesarry

REVELATIONS 20 [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The 1000 year period of rest. Theres your rest with Jesus.

ISAIAH 66 [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

And according to the WORD of GOD, HIS people will still be keeping the sabbath during that rest.Unless of course this scripture contains another one of those Hebrew parallelism bars. So will your God ever make up his mind. Keep the sabbath, no worries for a couple thousand years,and then keep sabbath again. You seem to be worshiping a wishy washy God there DHK.

PSALMS 132 [8] Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.[9] Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.[10] For thy servant David's sake turn not away the face of thine anointed.[11] The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.[12] If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.[13] For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.[14] This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Arise into thy rest, this is my rest for ever

ISAIAH 14 [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear,and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,[4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased![5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.[6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.[7] The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet:

Above scripture says it shall come to pass in that day (verse 3)the LORD shall give thee rest. Verse 7 says at that time the whole world is at rest. Well, i know for sure the whole world is not at rest. The rest with Jesus will not begin until he returns according to all the scriptures i found. Has anyone found other scriptures that say otherwise.

 

[DHK]

Downsville,
Do you keep the Sabbath? If so, tell me how?

 

[Downsville]

Hi DHK
Read HIS Word. Speakin HIS WORDs. Well, just kinda stayin in the WORD in one way or the other.The way i hear it breathing is work. Energy is exerted in walking. All could be called work if one choose to take the defintion straight from the dictionary.

 

[BobRyan]

Isaiah 66 speaking of the New Earth (also mentioned in Rev 21) "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to Worship"

Maybe that is "how" Christ the Creator wants us to "observe" His Holy day that He made holy on the 7th day of His creation week (Gen 2:3) as a blessing "For mankind" Mark 2:27.

In Christ,

Bob