Col 2:13 says
13 when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,,
Here Christ is presented as the only solution for our sin problem. The goal of making us alive by accomplishing forgiveness of sins for us.
Christ represents all of God - not some small nice-but-insufficient bifurcation of God. The totality of God in power, word, knowledge and love is embodied in Christ. The error then (as today) was apparently in dissecting God - Christ was "this part of God but not that old part of God".
Paul focuses on the problem - sin causing separation and requiring forgiveness of sin via payment of our eternal death - debt - for us to survive.
Christ's death (payment for our sin) that accomplishes the solution "forgiving us all our transgressions". In this way Paul eliminates the basis for false teachers to come in and say that Christ was "insufficient". That we still owe a debt of sin, and must achieve the goal (forgiveness) by some other means.
Col 2:
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Notice the context is that of making you alive
solving the problem of you being dead in transgression.
What defines what sin is??
(Rom 5, 7 tell us that the law defines what sin is - it is not a "record of guilt" but a standard of perfect sinless righteousness.).
What defines our transgression?
Clearly it is defined by a record of which sins we commit and how often. A record of some kind must exist to show what each individual owes "according to his deeds"
Rev 20:11 then i saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 and i saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 and the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Clearly the "decrees against us" are written in these books out of which each person is judged "according to their deeds".
2Cor 5:9 therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to him.
10 for we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
So then, what records/defines what each person's debt is? The law is the basis for knowing what is sin, but it is not the transaction of judgment specific to each individual - it is not a “record of guilt” it is instead a standard of judgment. It is the authoritative legal basis upon which judgment is rendered the standard that is compared to the life and actual deeds of each human. The resulting judgment then shows exactly where each one falls short of the glory of God. All are placed under condemnation and incur a debt of sin specific to their actual sins. The Holy Just and true “the spiritual Law of God” (Rom 7) is not that record of sin – it is not the “certificate of debt owed”.
Christ took the "stroke due us" the debt of death (Rom 623) was paid, nailed to the cross. It is the debt that is paid - the "certificate of debt" which itself "consists of decrees against us" faithfully records our deeds and what is owed individually -- and Christ pays the debt accumulated by each one of us.
Obviously when the police write out a ticket with a fine attached, then when the fine is canceled (via payment) - the law that defines obedience and violation - is not also cancelled.
Also note that the law that defines our sin - is not some local law specific only to the Hebrew nation. (as if only Hebrews need a savior)
So while Col 2:14 points to our
"certificate of Debt" as nailed to the cross - not the Law of God
.. and while Paul says in Romans 3:31 "Do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith! God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law of God"[/b] Rom 3:31
DHK counters with
Secondly, those after the law were never commanded that law which Paul said was nailed to the cross. That includes the Sabbath.
Then how is it in your view that God also nails the "certificate of debt"? In fact where do you find "the Law is nailed to the Cross"?
And how is it that God pulls the Sabbath "back off the cross" in your view - so that "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaih 66.
Clearly - your idea does not work.
So although "ALL MAKIND" is to keep the Law of God regarding Christ the Creator's Holy day made FOR "Mankind"
DHK counters with
the only nation commanded keep the law is the nation of Israel.
And there is the view that - mankind "only consists of the Jews". Something I don't agree with.
Then you hope to "restrict it to Jews only" - but Christ comes along 4000 years after Creation to say that STILL the Sabbath is made for "ALL mankind".
But rejecting that - DHK argues in response
It is for the nation of Israel alone.
Sounding the depths of the obvious gap that DHKs statement leaves by contrast - is left as an exercise for the reader.
DHK said
Jesus did say that it was made for man. Who was he speaking to and when did he say that? He was speaking to Jews, and He was speaking before He died, pre-cross still under the law.
The principle, however, remains the same. The Sabbath was made for the benefit of mankind. He does not command mankid to keep the Sabbath.
How then WAS mankind to reap the benefit of the Sabbath (in the context of Christ pre-cross Mark 2:27 - exegetically speaking) and how IS mankind to CONTINUE to benefit from Christ the Creator's holy day made FOR mankind after the cross IF Mankind is not under oblication to yield to Christ's stipulation regariding His own Holy day that HE made "for mankind"?
Would it be "ok" as long as mankind "ignores Christ" in the specifics of the day - and simply "sanctifies HIS OWN" day out of the seven? What that "humanistic-man-instead-of-god" form of participating in a 7th-day holy day - BE the act Christ the Creator was mentioning aout "THE Seventh day"?
In fact did Christ EVER give this as "ANY day you want out of seven"??
Perhaps man should take rest one day in seven.
Ahh - the gap again.
Left as an exercise for the reader.
Bob said --
And of course God states that this continues EVEN into the New Earth.
DHK said --
To be more accurate, the Lord will re-establish worship on the Sabbath when he comes again and sets up his Kingdom on earth.
Do You mean "any day you want out of seven?"
(a form Christ never mentioned but "you" do).
Do you mean "taking the Sabbath back down from the cross where you claim he went through all the pain and effor to nail it?"
In Christ,
Bob
Do you know WHO that might have been DHK)For he established a testimony.