Gods blessings

[annsni]

What if you are not able to pay off your debts because you are poor?

Then God has blessed you with the ability to earn extra money to pay back what you promised to pay back when you borrowed. You get a second job, you cut your expenses, you do all that you can to pay down that debt like a good steward of your money.

My daughter just got a job in Washington DC and moved from home. We helped with her expenses but she was unwise before she moved out and she has credit card debt in addition to her student loan debt. We worked out her budget (including credit card debt repayment) and she is actually short each month for her basic expenses - not adding in clothing, savings, entertainment or anything like that. So she went ahead and put out her name that she babysits and she was blessed with a job last week and one this week. She's in a very expensive area so people pay well and she should be able to make the little bit more she needs each month to be able to cover the necessary (non-negotiable) expenses and have some breathing room as well. It's just what a responsible person does.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I believe that 'poor' here cancels out monetary poverty in its context in Matthew 5:3, due to it being poor in spirit.

I also do not believe that Luke 6:20 is referring to poor as in monetary poverty, as that meaning would lend itself to much confusion and error.

 

[JonC]

Then God has blessed you with the ability to earn extra money to pay back what you promised to pay back when you borrowed. You get a second job, you cut your expenses, you do all that you can to pay down that debt like a good steward of your money.

My daughter just got a job in Washington DC and moved from home. We helped with her expenses but she was unwise before she moved out and she has credit card debt in addition to her student loan debt. We worked out her budget (including credit card debt repayment) and she is actually short each month for her basic expenses - not adding in clothing, savings, entertainment or anything like that. So she went ahead and put out her name that she babysits and she was blessed with a job last week and one this week. She's in a very expensive area so people pay well and she should be able to make the little bit more she needs each month to be able to cover the necessary (non-negotiable) expenses and have some breathing room as well. It's just what a responsible person does.

One problem facing the generation behind me (Evan’s generation) is the quickness that one can get into major debt. When my wife and I married we made several foolish decisions. We got into debt with a credit card, but at that time the banks gave us just enough to get a few rope burns, not enough to hang ourselves.

Banks today seem to prey on young couples by appealing to their desires, their lack of responsibility, and giving them credit far beyond their financial means. Over and over again I’ve seen couples in their mid-30’s come to the realization of their financial situation only to be overwhelmed by the prospect of paying back this debt.

It is true that we make our own beds, society is not responsible for our poor decisions, and we should be held responsible for our mistakes. But I believe that we also can see the unethical behavior of these banks. I remember a friend applying for and receiving a credit card with a 10k limit. She worked part time and brought home about 1k a month.

Evan, you have gotten yourself in a bad situation. I have been there also. Don gave you the best advice thus far – keep praying, obeying and paying.

 

[Internet Theologian]

What if you are not able to pay off your debts because you are poor?

There are many variables with this so more details would be necessary.

Being poor is not an excuse to get into debt. (I am not saying this is your case) There are too many who use this as an excuse, then accumulate more debt, knowing they have no intentions on paying it back.

If a Christian person is accumulating debt (which simply put is buying themselves gifts, things, vacations &c) knowing that they cannot pay it back, and/or are in other debts that they cannot pay back either, then this person needs to repent of their covetousness which is idolatry, Colossians 3:5. 1 Corinthians 5:11 categorizes the severity of this sin. And it is a sin.

 

[TCassidy]

What if you are not able to pay off your debts because you are poor?

That would depend on why the person has such debts, and why they are poor. If they have excessive debt due to profligate spending or refusal to work, then the poor/unable condition is the fault of the person.

If, however, that person is victim of circumstances beyond his control, it is a different situation. In such a case there are legal remedies and some assistance should be available from the person's church family.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There was a man I have known from my early youth. A few years ago(3 or 4 years?) he started going to churches saying he needed help paying his bills. He would go so far as sending word to churches in Virginia(he lived in eastern Ky), and in Florida, iirc. One time he went to a church and said he needed money to pay his electric bill, the pastor said to bring them the bill and they would pay it for him. He said he needed the money and did not give them that bill. Needless to say, he never got any money from them.

Churches have to help those in need, but not those in greed.

 

[evangelist6589]

That would depend on why the person has such debts, and why they are poor. If they have excessive debt due to profligate spending or refusal to work, then the poor/unable condition is the fault of the person.

If, however, that person is victim of circumstances beyond his control, it is a different situation. In such a case there are legal remedies and some assistance should be available from the person's church family.

In my situation it was situations beyond control for most of my CC debt. For my student loans just being unwise.

 

[evangelist6589]

There was a man I have known from my early youth. A few years ago(3 or 4 years?) he started going to churches saying he needed help paying his bills. He would go so far as sending word to churches in Virginia(he lived in eastern Ky), and in Florida, iirc. One time he went to a church and said he needed money to pay his electric bill, the pastor said to bring them the bill and they would pay it for him. He said he needed the money and did not give them that bill. Needless to say, he never got any money from them.

Churches have to help those in need, but not those in greed.

I can pay all my bills. I just cannot go beyond min payment so I won't ever pay off my debts.

 

[evangelist6589]

One problem facing the generation behind me (Evan’s generation) is the quickness that one can get into major debt. When my wife and I married we made several foolish decisions. We got into debt with a credit card, but at that time the banks gave us just enough to get a few rope burns, not enough to hang ourselves.

Banks today seem to prey on young couples by appealing to their desires, their lack of responsibility, and giving them credit far beyond their financial means. Over and over again I’ve seen couples in their mid-30’s come to the realization of their financial situation only to be overwhelmed by the prospect of paying back this debt.

It is true that we make our own beds, society is not responsible for our poor decisions, and we should be held responsible for our mistakes. But I believe that we also can see the unethical behavior of these banks. I remember a friend applying for and receiving a credit card with a 10k limit. She worked part time and brought home about 1k a month.

Evan, you have gotten yourself in a bad situation. I have been there also. Don gave you the best advice thus far – keep praying, obeying and paying.

That's all that can be done. I have a second job know but combined I will only make a little over 40K Hardley the shovel to pay off more than 60K in student loans and paying rent in Denver.

 

[evangelist6589]

Then God has blessed you with the ability to earn extra money to pay back what you promised to pay back when you borrowed. You get a second job, you cut your expenses, you do all that you can to pay down that debt like a good steward of your money.

My daughter just got a job in Washington DC and moved from home. We helped with her expenses but she was unwise before she moved out and she has credit card debt in addition to her student loan debt. We worked out her budget (including credit card debt repayment) and she is actually short each month for her basic expenses - not adding in clothing, savings, entertainment or anything like that. So she went ahead and put out her name that she babysits and she was blessed with a job last week and one this week. She's in a very expensive area so people pay well and she should be able to make the little bit more she needs each month to be able to cover the necessary (non-negotiable) expenses and have some breathing room as well. It's just what a responsible person does.

I am in my 3rd week of my second job. Lord willing in time I will pay down my credit cards. Student loans hardly as I do not make enough.

 

[annsni]

I am in my 3rd week of my second job. Lord willing in time I will pay down my credit cards. Student loans hardly as I do not make enough.

That's great that you got a second job! Work towards paying down those credit cards and continue paying the payment on the student loans. Once you have no more credit card debt, start paying down those student loans. It may take a long time but it will be worth it with the knowledge that you accomplished something really hard.

 

[evangelist6589]

That's great that you got a second job! Work towards paying down those credit cards and continue paying the payment on the student loans. Once you have no more credit card debt, start paying down those student loans. It may take a long time but it will be worth it with the knowledge that you accomplished something really hard.

Just gotta get me to stop spending. Bought a Apple TV, new blue ray player, and new boom box. Also wanted to buy the new Apple Watch but at $300 I said I cannot.

I am really enjoying the APPLETV however as it was a good buy.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Just gotta get me to stop spending. Bought a Apple TV, new blue ray player, and new boom box. Also wanted to buy the new Apple Watch but at $300 I said I cannot.

I am really enjoying the APPLETV however as it was a good buy.

A good buy really isn't a good buy if you can't even afford the low price. That's the deception about "sales". People buy on impulse because it's at a discounted price thinking that they are saving money when they are not.

My father used to joke with my mother when she would come home and say "I bought this new dress today. It had been $100, but I got it on sale for $30. I saved $70!!!"

He would say, "Well, then - give ME the $70 you saved!"

She really didn't save $70. She spent $30.

Why don't you try this: Every time during the month you feel the impulse to buy a non-essential item because you think it's a good buy - take that money and put it away. At the end of the month, you will have more to apply to your debt and you will be shocked at what you really saved.

 

[JonC]

Just gotta get me to stop spending. Bought a Apple TV, new blue ray player, and new boom box. Also wanted to buy the new Apple Watch but at $300 I said I cannot.

I am really enjoying the APPLETV however as it was a good buy.

Evan,

I do not mean to be overly critical here, but bringing home 40K a year is not the problem if you bought an Apple TV, a boom box, and a blue-ray player (combined with, if my memory is correct, a mac computer purchased in the not so distant past). Brother, your issue is not one of income but one of indulging your desires.

Sometimes (often) the discipline of not indulging our desires is a pursuit worth the effort even when we can afford those desires. It not only builds character, but it also helps one understand what is important, what is of the Spirit, and what is of the flesh.

I don’t intend this post to be overly critical or mean. I’ve been where you are now (on much less income). I’ve made very dumb decisions, and I’ve paid for my own stupidity. We sometimes make foolish decisions and have to work our way out of that mess. I don’t know if this will help you at all, but if I were rescued from my own stupidity when I was younger I would have never developed the mindset to manage my finances as I progressed through life. If you are struggling financially but can list among your purchases an Apple TV, “boom box”, a blue ray player, and a mac computer then the last thing you need is a “novocaine” type post to help dull the pain. Like me, years ago, you need to struggle, do without, loose things you value, have sleepless nights and feel the pain of irresponsible behavior. Not only can this bring you closer to God as you walk through rebuilding your finances, but it will teach you just how costly credit and financial irresponsibility really can be.

I’m praying for you, and I wish you the best. Just keep paying your debts. Paying the minimum will take a long time, but they will get paid (just don’t make any more).

 

[annsni]

Just gotta get me to stop spending. Bought a Apple TV, new blue ray player, and new boom box. Also wanted to buy the new Apple Watch but at $300 I said I cannot.

I am really enjoying the APPLETV however as it was a good buy.

Jon has some good words. Your pleasure - what you are feeling when you are buying these things - are an idol in your life. You need to learn to say "no" to that pleasure and work towards fulfilling the promises you have made already in purchasing things on your credit card. As I said, my daughter just moved away from home for the first time. She has her first real job in her career after 4 years of waiting and has her first apartment. She has no TV. She can't afford the cable for it so we told her to not bother getting one yet. Yes, we could easily buy her one for about $120 that would be perfect but without cable right now, she can't afford it. When we go down on Columbus Day weekend, we will bring down a small 19" we have and some antennas my other daughter had bought for when she lived in the city and see if they work. If they do, we will leave the set up with her. If they don't, she will continue to live without a TV. She also can't afford internet. Nowadays, internet is really quite important but we found with her apartment immediately above the lobby where there is free high speed wifi, she can usually get a decent signal and so she is working off of that for now. When she needs to do something secure (like banking), she does it at school where there is a secure network or she does it on her phone She knows that by not having TV and wifi, she is saving about $80 a month and that's just $80 a month she doesn't have.

Yes Evan - you need to stop spending. You are being highly irresponsible with your money and it is not setting a good example to others of what a godly man does with his money. Please learn from your mistakes!

 

[evangelist6589]

Jon has some good words. Your pleasure - what you are feeling when you are buying these things - are an idol in your life. You need to learn to say "no" to that pleasure and work towards fulfilling the promises you have made already in purchasing things on your credit card. As I said, my daughter just moved away from home for the first time. She has her first real job in her career after 4 years of waiting and has her first apartment. She has no TV. She can't afford the cable for it so we told her to not bother getting one yet. Yes, we could easily buy her one for about $120 that would be perfect but without cable right now, she can't afford it. When we go down on Columbus Day weekend, we will bring down a small 19" we have and some antennas my other daughter had bought for when she lived in the city and see if they work. If they do, we will leave the set up with her. If they don't, she will continue to live without a TV. She also can't afford internet. Nowadays, internet is really quite important but we found with her apartment immediately above the lobby where there is free high speed wifi, she can usually get a decent signal and so she is working off of that for now. When she needs to do something secure (like banking), she does it at school where there is a secure network or she does it on her phone She knows that by not having TV and wifi, she is saving about $80 a month and that's just $80 a month she doesn't have.

Yes Evan - you need to stop spending. You are being highly irresponsible with your money and it is not setting a good example to others of what a godly man does with his money. Please learn from your mistakes!

Well the fact is that I am able to pay back what I have purchased makes it okay to purchase them. If I was unable to easily pay back what I have purchased (like the apple watch or a new car) then I would not purchase them and I have not. Do you think I want a new car? I would not mind one, but I cannot afford it so I have not purchased one.

The simple reality is that I was given a new TV for FREE and I had lived with a Tube TV since 2007. In my new place of residence cable comes with the rent cost and so I purchased the 3rd gen Apple TV for a cheaper cost. There is nothing wrong with buying things as long as you can afford them.
For years I have not lived with Cable and so now its really nice being able to watch the news and or some shows on the science channel that are more educational.

I do see your point however and why its wise not to buy things that will put me into a debt that I cannot repay or cannot easily repay.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evan,

I do not mean to be overly critical here, but bringing home 40K a year is not the problem if you bought an Apple TV, a boom box, and a blue-ray player (combined with, if my memory is correct, a mac computer purchased in the not so distant past). Brother, your issue is not one of income but one of indulging your desires.

Sometimes (often) the discipline of not indulging our desires is a pursuit worth the effort even when we can afford those desires. It not only builds character, but it also helps one understand what is important, what is of the Spirit, and what is of the flesh.

I don’t intend this post to be overly critical or mean. I’ve been where you are now (on much less income). I’ve made very dumb decisions, and I’ve paid for my own stupidity. We sometimes make foolish decisions and have to work our way out of that mess. I don’t know if this will help you at all, but if I were rescued from my own stupidity when I was younger I would have never developed the mindset to manage my finances as I progressed through life. If you are struggling financially but can list among your purchases an Apple TV, “boom box”, a blue ray player, and a mac computer then the last thing you need is a “novocaine” type post to help dull the pain. Like me, years ago, you need to struggle, do without, loose things you value, have sleepless nights and feel the pain of irresponsible behavior. Not only can this bring you closer to God as you walk through rebuilding your finances, but it will teach you just how costly credit and financial irresponsibility really can be.

I’m praying for you, and I wish you the best. Just keep paying your debts. Paying the minimum will take a long time, but they will get paid (just don’t make any more).

I do not agree that buying the Mac Computer was a mistake because I was able to pay back the debt. I also do not agree that buying things is wrong if I am able to pay back the debts. What I do agree with is that buying things that takes me a long long long time to pay them back is not wise in most situations. If my engine or transmission or something major blew on my car then I would probably put the repairs on a credit card before I bought a new car as that would be cheaper, or would that not be wise? Perhaps not, perhaps better to invest in a new car.

Now since I have purchased things the next things I need to purchase are more of an essential nature such as new clothes and some furniture. Yes since I am no longer living with my wife I need new furniture. But I plan to go to the used store to get them if possible.

Thanks for your input, but I do believe its wise to be balanced. For years I have lived without TV and now its nice being able to watch the news and some educational shows. I am mostly reading books that are required at church and so have major ally cut back on my book reading. Combine that with watching TV and I am balanced. Then not to miss that I am working 60 hours a week.

 

[annsni]

Well the fact is that I am able to pay back what I have purchased makes it okay to purchase them. If I was unable to easily pay back what I have purchased (like the apple watch or a new car) then I would not purchase them and I have not. Do you think I want a new car? I would not mind one, but I cannot afford it so I have not purchased one.

The simple reality is that I was given a new TV for FREE and I had lived with a Tube TV since 2007. In my new place of residence cable comes with the rent cost and so I purchased the 3rd gen Apple TV for a cheaper cost. There is nothing wrong with buying things as long as you can afford them.
For years I have not lived with Cable and so now its really nice being able to watch the news and or some shows on the science channel that are more educational.

I do see your point however and why its wise not to buy things that will put me into a debt that I cannot repay or cannot easily repay.

But you are purchasing "luxury" items when you complain that you cannot get out of debt. You have made a promise to pay back what you have borrowed and yet you take that extra money and use it to purchase things that you do no need. Yes, it is "nice" but it is not a necessity. But you don't get that, do you?

 

[annsni]

Yes since I am no longer living with my wife

Wait - you and your wife have separated?

 

[Don]

Folks, wheels are spinning....

His new place of residence provides cable, and he was given a TV; the TV could have connected directly to the cable outlet, or he could have paid less than $20 for a cable converter; but he chose to buy the Apple TV so that he has access to internet TV.

And then he states that he can only make minimum payments on his long-term debts.

Then he talks about his car, which is needful for getting to work.

And when people comment on his choices, he defends those choices with logic about "it's okay to fully pay for things I want"; while complaining about only being able to make minimum payments; while disregarding that he can only make minimum payments because he's using his extra income to "fully pay" for immediate wants...instead of needs.

-----
John, identify how many accounts you're making minimum monthly payments on. Multiply that number by 10. Add that amount to the lowest balance account. For example: if your lowest balance account is typically $25/month payment, and you have 5 accounts, add another $50 (5 x 10) to that payment, for a total of $75. If you don't think you can do $10 per account, do $5 (5 x 5); then you'd be paying an additional $25, for a total of $50 for that account. Meanwhile, keep making minimum payments on the other accounts.

Don't think about it; just do it.

Then, when that account is paid off, look at the next lowest balance account. For example, if it's $30/month, add those two amounts (the $25 payment and the additional amount--preferably $50, but at least the extra $25) to that, for either $105 or $80.

Then you just keep "snowballing" the accounts.

Keep praying, obeying, and paying.