God's Children Are Redeemed Because They Are His Children

[37818]

Ephesians 1:3-6, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."

 

[CJP69]

Why are you bringing up Harvard?

My bad! I misread the post! Sorry! I'll pay closer attention.

You wrote: "What I've presented is NOT Pelagianism. If you were as familiar with it as you claim."

I was showing you that I am quite knowledgeable about Pelagianism, having been born and raised and spending decades in the Church of Christ. My comment had nothing to do with saying that you are a Pelagian.

Yes, I get that but what I'm trying to figure out is why I would care about your previous Pelgianism?

What does it have to do with anything?

 

[CJP69]

Ephesians 1:3-6, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."

As in all biblical instances where predestination is spoken about, it is either God Himself or it is groups of people that are predestined not specific individuals. A point that I seem to recall making to you before - of course without response from you.

We in the Body of Christ are predestined to salvation but not because I or you or any other particular individual was predestined but because the Body of Christ itself, the group, has been predestined. It is Christ Himself that is predestined for Glory and we are predestine IN HIM.

 

[CJP69]

I was talking about false gospels in general that deny that Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions to save God's elect; false gospels that condition salvation in some way to at least some degree at some point on fallen sinners, and which look at righteousness as being on a sliding scale, instead of proclaiming the necessity of the fallen sinner needing a PERFECT righteousness in which even God the Father cannot find a fault - the PERFECT RIGHTEOUSNESS that the Lord Jesus Christ achieved for all of those whom God the Father gave to Him before the world began.

And so, because I say that it wasn't arbitrarily decided by God in advance but that He offers salvation to anyone willing to accept it, it is actually you who is suggesting that I am not saved, rather than the reverse which you accused me of.

Brilliant!

Is there even any such thing as an intellectually honest Calvinist? If so, they're as rare as hen's teeth.

 

[KenH]

it is actually you who is suggesting that I am not saved, rather than the reverse which you accused me of.

I think you meant to refer to kyredneck in his post #22 above.

 

[37818]

We in the Body of Christ are predestined . . .

Ephesians 1:5, ". . . Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, . . ."

Romans 8:23, ". . . waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. . . .,"

Romans 8:29, " . . . For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. . . ."

 

[KenH]

What does it have to do with anything?

I simply brought it up since you seemed to indicate earlier that I didn't know about false gospels that do not teach that salvation is conditioned totally on Christ Jesus alone with no admixture of human works or effort. And clearly I do know about such on a very personal level as I was taught a false gospel growing up in the Church of Christ.

 

[CJP69]

Yes, one can, and all of God's elect, chosen by God and given to Christ to be their Surety before the world began, are presented with the gospel of the grace of God in Christ Jesus, and regenerated by the Holy Spirit, andcgranted the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ, before they leave this life.

No, you absolutely cannot. I understand that you think otherwise but its because you have Calvinist colored classes on. Every single Calvinist distinctive doctrine as you've just partially listed is read into the text. They are all brought to the text in an a-priori fashion and read into the text. There is not one single exception.

This is part of the reason why Calvinist's every argument is comprised of mostly proof-texting where small portions of scripture are cited and the context is ignored, as this thread is a perfect example of. You don't care what Romans 9 is actually about, you care that there are some sentences in there that sound like your doctrine when you ignore the rest of the text of not only that chapter but the other scriptures that Paul was referencing, not to mention the whole of scripture and the very character of God Himself.

 

[CJP69]

So, as expected there is clearly not anyone participating on this thread that has any intention whatsoever of responding directly and substantively to the argument that I've presented here and done so twice!


That's totally fine. It goes to demonstrating to me that there isn't any such thing as a Calvinist who can stand against sound reason and the plain reading of scripture.

 

[KenH]

No, you absolutely cannot.

Yes, I can.

its because you have Calvinist colored classes on.

I do not wear colored glasses. I have always worn clear lenses.

Every single Calvinist distinctive doctrine as you've just partially listed is read into the text.

No, they are not.

They are all brought to the text in an a-priori fashion and read into the text.

No, they are not.

There is not one single exception.

There is no single exception because God's sovereignty is clearly taught in Romans chapter 9 and you rhetorically gnash your teeth at the idea that God is the potter and can do with you - and all of us - as He purposes for His glory.

 

[CJP69]

Yes, I can.

I've proven that so far, you've been unable to do so and I've done that by more than repeating myself like a 3rd grade child.

You bore me. What on God's Earth you get out of doing this, I will never know.

 

[KenH]

You bore me.

And yet you keep responding to me.