God's Decree, Concerning the Rejection of lost souls #1. Pret-er-i-tion.

[Alan Gross]

Raise your hand if you Love THE GOD of THE BIBLE.

Personally, I don't care how you look at any of The Bible;
if you can't 'get' that
NONE WOULD HAVE ESCAPED THE ETERNAL FIRES
of THE EVERLASTING LAKE of FIRE,
with UNENDING TORMENT and SUFFERING,

based on OUR OWN SIN, As Natural Born,
Practicing SINNERS, against an Infininly HOLY
ALL-SCIENCE-KNOWING, ALMIGHTY, OMNIPRESENT GODHEAD,

then skip any ideas you have
about anything Contained in The ETERNAL WORDS of GOD,
He Has Revealed to us, HIMSELF.

WE WERE ALL PREDAMNED
(not as this Preterition is distinguished, [see why it is different]
but afterward, once our sin is brought into consideration).

CONDEMNED.

CHILDREN of WRATH.

The TWO Parts of this Decree, BY GOD ALMIGHTY,
concerning the rejection of men,
are commonly said to be preterition and predamnation*.

adapted from His By Grace--
"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

pret·er·i·tion
/ˌpredəˈriSH(ə)n/

noun

1. 1.
   the action of passing over or disregarding a matter, especially the rhetorical technique of mentioning something by professing to omit it.
   "the favorite rhetorical trope of the historical novelists is preterition, saying that you are not going to say something and thereby saying it"

2b1. Preterition is God's Passing by some men when he chose others:

God "ACTS". Is that God O.K. with you?

God's Passing by some men IS THE ACTIVITY of GOD.

"and in this Act, or part of the Decree, men are considered as in the pure mass of creatureship, or the potential to be created; in which state they are found when passed by or rejected, and in which they are left, even just as they are found, nothing put into them;

"but were left in the pure mass, as they lay, and so no injury is done them;

"nor is God to be charged with any injustice towards them:
in this Act sin does not come into consideration, as it does in the following part of GOD'S Decree of the Rejection of lost souls (OP) (predamnation);

"...because in Preterition with God's Passing by some men when He choses other men are considered as not created, and so not fallen;

again: considered as in the pure mass of creatureship, or the potential to be created;
in which state they are found when passed by or rejected,
and in which they are left, even just as they are found, nothing put into them;

"... but as unborn, and having done neither good nor evil, #Romans 9:11."

9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,

that the purpose of God according to election might stand,

not of works, but of Him that Calleth),


When God Writes things, Do YOU LOVE HIM for it?

"And this is a Pure Act of Sovereignty in God,
and to His Sovereign Will the Rejection of lost souls (OP) is to be ascribed;

who has the Same Sovereign Power, and Greater, than the potter has over his clay,
to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor, #Romans 9:19,20,22.

19 Thou wilt say then unto Me, Why doth He yet find fault?
For who hath resisted His Will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it,
Why hast Thou Made me thus?

21 Hath not the Potter Power over the clay, of the same lump
to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

22 What if God, Willing to Show His Wrath, and to Make His Power Known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction;

This being expressed, as before observed, by negative phrases, is, by some, called negative reprobation.


DOES YOU RELATIONSHIP with GOD

PERMIT GOD to BE:
"Willing to Show His Wrath, and to Make His Power Known"?

DO YOU LOVE or EVEN KNOW THAT GOD of THE UNIVERSE??


Then,
WE WERE ALL PREDAMNED
(once our sin is brought into consideration).

CONDEMNED.

CHILDREN of WRATH.

...

God Predetermined to Glorify His Son,
as The Redeemer of some souls, God Selected
by The Good Pleasure of His Own Will.

God, therefore, Allowed Adam to be Mutiable and not a robot.

Adam exercised his ability to change
AND TRANSGRESSED THE UNIVERSE LAW
and COMMAND of THE THRICE HOLY GODHEAD.

We all would have chosen to sin
against The Infinitely Holy Creator God and in that way, we sinned in Adam.

We are helpless, hopeless, God-Hating, flesh filled,
carnal HELLBOUND SINNERS.

God Chose to Give some to The Son
and The Son Saved them to The Uttermost.

Otherwise, Hell would be The ETERNAL DESTINY
of EVERY MEMBER of THE HUMAN RACE.


...

*predamnation

Pronunciation /ˌpriːdamˈneɪʃn/


NOUN

• The action of condemning or damning in advance; an instance of this; the condition of already being condemned or damned, especially by predestination.

 

[ivdavid]

again: considered as in the pure mass of creatureship, or the potential to be created;
in which state they are found when passed by or rejected,
and in which they are left, even just as they are found, nothing put into them;

(firstly, i'm not being critical, but simply providing feedback that these different font sizes and font colors don't make it an easy read - that's just plain UI principles which you may or equally may not choose to abide by. Bold, Italic and Underline should be sufficient for emphasis and maybe a single dark color for verses? Again, not a core issue but only intending to be helpful)

And since we've already discussed before, the backdrop is that I still disagree with you when you think anyone who does not exactly hold these doctrines are incapable of being believers who are having God's Love equally shed abroad in their hearts. And you'd debate me as if I am someone I very clearly claim not to be - so let's get those digressions out of the way as soon as possible and simply focus on the doctrines themselves.

I completely believe that there are the individually elect and by definition there are the non-elect. Before any were born or before any of their acts, good or evil, were considered - God chose/elected some (termed as those He foreknew) to give them something that He passed over giving to the rest.

What was that 'something' that God gave to the elect but withheld from the non-elect? We could debate this as the first point if in disagreement, but I'd hold it to be - the promise of salvation. God promised/assured salvation to the elect (also why they're termed the children of Promise) which He did not, to the non-elect.

If you felt you agreed with the above too, then there's hope for reconciliation between our positions - and if not, instead of trying to juggle too many points all at once let's simply begin debating these and move on only when nothing left to discuss.

"And this is a Pure Act of Sovereignty in God,
and to His Sovereign Will the Rejection of lost souls (OP) is to be ascribed;

Is this your extended interpretation? While I can agree that Preterition is distinct from condemnation and that it is simply passing over the non-chosen and that it is a pure act of God's sovereignty - how can it logically be the rejection of lost souls, for these souls are not yet lost, having no sin in them considered yet. Therefore, just by definition, the non-elect being lost cannot be attributed to preterition as a cause. Since they were passed over as they were, nothing put into them, this itself cannot cause anything in them. Would you agree?
You may very well move on to say that this would be a differentiating factor in the later consideration of sin - but it's still not causing sin or their being lost or their condemnation in just the preterition of them.

 

[utilyan]

Raise your hand if you Love THE GOD of THE BIBLE.

Personally, I don't care how you look at any of The Bible;
if you can't 'get' that
NONE WOULD HAVE ESCAPED THE ETERNAL FIRES
of THE EVERLASTING LAKE of FIRE,
with UNENDING TORMENT and SUFFERING,

based on OUR OWN SIN, As Natural Born,
Practicing SINNERS, against an Infininly HOLY
ALL-SCIENCE-KNOWING, ALMIGHTY, OMNIPRESENT GODHEAD,

then skip any ideas you have
about anything Contained in The ETERNAL WORDS of GOD,
He Has Revealed to us, HIMSELF.

WE WERE ALL PREDAMNED
(not as this Preterition is distinguished, [see why it is different]
but afterward, once our sin is brought into consideration).

CONDEMNED.

CHILDREN of WRATH.

The TWO Parts of this Decree, BY GOD ALMIGHTY,
concerning the rejection of men,
are commonly said to be preterition and predamnation*.

adapted from His By Grace--
"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

pret·er·i·tion
/ˌpredəˈriSH(ə)n/

noun

1. 1.
   the action of passing over or disregarding a matter, especially the rhetorical technique of mentioning something by professing to omit it.
   "the favorite rhetorical trope of the historical novelists is preterition, saying that you are not going to say something and thereby saying it"

2b1. Preterition is God's Passing by some men when he chose others:

God "ACTS". Is that God O.K. with you?

God's Passing by some men IS THE ACTIVITY of GOD.

"and in this Act, or part of the Decree, men are considered as in the pure mass of creatureship, or the potential to be created; in which state they are found when passed by or rejected, and in which they are left, even just as they are found, nothing put into them;

"but were left in the pure mass, as they lay, and so no injury is done them;

"nor is God to be charged with any injustice towards them:
in this Act sin does not come into consideration, as it does in the following part of GOD'S Decree of the Rejection of lost souls (OP) (predamnation);

"...because in Preterition with God's Passing by some men when He choses other men are considered as not created, and so not fallen;

again: considered as in the pure mass of creatureship, or the potential to be created;
in which state they are found when passed by or rejected,
and in which they are left, even just as they are found, nothing put into them;

"... but as unborn, and having done neither good nor evil, #Romans 9:11."

9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,

that the purpose of God according to election might stand,

not of works, but of Him that Calleth),


When God Writes things, Do YOU LOVE HIM for it?

"And this is a Pure Act of Sovereignty in God,
and to His Sovereign Will the Rejection of lost souls (OP) is to be ascribed;

who has the Same Sovereign Power, and Greater, than the potter has over his clay,
to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor, #Romans 9:19,20,22.

19 Thou wilt say then unto Me, Why doth He yet find fault?
For who hath resisted His Will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it,
Why hast Thou Made me thus?

21 Hath not the Potter Power over the clay, of the same lump
to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

22 What if God, Willing to Show His Wrath, and to Make His Power Known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction;

This being expressed, as before observed, by negative phrases, is, by some, called negative reprobation.


DOES YOU RELATIONSHIP with GOD

PERMIT GOD to BE:
"Willing to Show His Wrath, and to Make His Power Known"?

DO YOU LOVE or EVEN KNOW THAT GOD of THE UNIVERSE??


Then,
WE WERE ALL PREDAMNED
(once our sin is brought into consideration).

CONDEMNED.

CHILDREN of WRATH.

...

God Predetermined to Glorify His Son,
as The Redeemer of some souls, God Selected
by The Good Pleasure of His Own Will.

God, therefore, Allowed Adam to be Mutiable and not a robot.

Adam exercised his ability to change
AND TRANSGRESSED THE UNIVERSE LAW
and COMMAND of THE THRICE HOLY GODHEAD.

We all would have chosen to sin
against The Infinitely Holy Creator God and in that way, we sinned in Adam.

We are helpless, hopeless, God-Hating, flesh filled,
carnal HELLBOUND SINNERS.

God Chose to Give some to The Son
and The Son Saved them to The Uttermost.

Otherwise, Hell would be The ETERNAL DESTINY
of EVERY MEMBER of THE HUMAN RACE.


...

*predamnation

Pronunciation /ˌpriːdamˈneɪʃn/


NOUN

• The action of condemning or damning in advance; an instance of this; the condition of already being condemned or damned, especially by predestination.

God is Mature and Intelligent that okay with you?

Redeemer implies they have something of Good quality.

"But if corruption take away all measure, all form, all order from corruptible things, no nature will remain. And consequently every nature which cannot be corrupted is the highest good, as is God. But every nature that can be corrupted is also itself some good; for corruption cannot injure it, except by taking away from or diminishing that which is good." --St. Augustine

"No nature, therefore, as far as it is nature, is evil; but to each nature there is no evil except to be diminished in respect of good. But if by being diminished it should be consumed so that there is no good, no nature would be left; not only such as the Manichæans introduce, where so great good things are found that their exceeding blindness is wonderful, but such as any one can introduce." --St. Augustine

See if there is nothing Good, then nature is GONE, nothing to save there.

You need something to Respond to God.

Its easy to prove me wrong. Just tell me about that time you were reading the paper in front of the TV, with a seething hatred of neighbors and God.....and then ZAP you are regenerated.

 

[ivdavid]

Its easy to prove me wrong. Just tell me about that time you were reading the paper in front of the TV, with a seething hatred of neighbors and God.....and then ZAP you are regenerated.

I could tell you of the time one was riding on a horse to Damascus with a seething hatred of neighbor and God...and then ZAP, he was regenerated.

 

[utilyan]

I could tell you of the time one was riding on a horse to Damascus with a seething hatred of neighbor and God...and then ZAP, he was regenerated.

Why would you have to blind someone who is already on your side? He had to hear the gospel afterwards. He was not regenerated or sanctified.

Its the the ridiculous notion of how is a person suppose to repent for their bad heart?

God says the condition for giving you a new heart is you repent of your bad one. You guys claim you can't even know you have a bad heart unless you get zapped.

Or like Paul says how the Law was their TUTOR teaching them they did wrong and teaching they needed a savior.

Yet Calvinist say Law doesn't teach you anything, you have to get zapped first so you can receive the Gnostic enlightenment.